LM: Based in Canada in Toronto, a German fund but doing all the acquisitions from Washington D.C. down to Orlando. So traveling as a young 24-25 year old kid doing due diligence, doing lease analysis, doing underwriting, hiring, building condition assessment reports, environmental, negotiating purchase and sale agreements with my VP and really working on limited partnership books and return calculations and pitching them to investors. So it was very, it was a jump right in.

DA: So some great early experience to get your feet wet in the industry and then sort of what was next?

LM: I did that for almost four years and I did it and I decided I needed to do an MBA. So I went into an MBA at Western. I graduated from Western IV MBA and I briefly became a strategy consultant for Accenture for about a year.

Thinking this was the coolest job, you know, solving problems using my broad MBA intellect but quickly realized David that what I really enjoyed about my previous four years in real estate was I really enjoyed real estate. So I stayed as a management consultant for a year and then I came back into real estate and joined a firm called Giffles where I did development and asset management of industrial real estate, speculative development with a whole series of a purchaser and buyer and buyers and then eventually we decided to keep the real estate and form part of a fund and I became the head of asset management for about four years.

So I was there for almost eight years doing everything from analysis, working with our co-ownership, doing asset management, property management, then I joined Oxford Properties where I was for almost 11 years and originally in the property management side as a director of property management leading the office portfolio and then I became the head of platform services overseeing very broad services that I like to say made Oxford better.

I didn’t make the CD, I made the CD better like BASF would say. I oversaw sustainability, procurement, technical operations, emergency management, sustainability, customer platforms and eventually smart and connected and smart strategy and so I did that for almost 11 years and then I landed in Epic Investments where I was the head of property management, leasing and national programs for them for almost three years and I had a brief stint when I worked for a technology firm called Intelligent Buildings where I did business development and sales support and then I joined Kandrell almost three months ago.

DA: Yes and our paths cross again.

LM: Yeah, our paths cross again, absolutely.

DA: Yeah, I love it, I love it. So a really interesting experience and I think going from the asset side to very focused on operations, then expanding to the platform services and thinking more broadly across the entire portfolio, working for a technology company and now coming back in a very unique role which I want you to share a little bit more about and I guess it’s through that broad lens of different ways into the industry that I think this conversation is going to be super interesting for our listeners.

LM: Yeah, thank you. I mean, I haven’t done leasing. Oh, sorry.

I’ve been responsible for making the leasing decisions and making lots of recommendations and negotiated lots of leases but I’ve never been a broker. That’s okay. So here I am in, I’m the SVP business development and customer success for Kandrell.

So my role is to work across the platforms and the services and grow our business and so I interact with property management. I’m working predominantly with that space right now. Eventually, I’ll broaden my services a little bit but working with property management and really identifying opportunities for us to grow our property management platform.

We’re 23 million square feet under management broadly across office, retail, some industrial, predominantly an institutional class office manager but we also have a development platform and an investment platform at Kandrell. So we’re a sophisticated firm that’s been around for about 50 years and so that’s the easy part of my job description, the business development side. The other side is customer success and customer success is really a neat place.

It’s about aligning the interests of the owner with the realities of the services we provide and so in many ways, that’s sort of sitting with a, taking an owner’s hat, putting it on from inside the organization and challenging the expectations of the client, challenging the delivery of value creation with our property teams and making sure we’re giving the client more than just performance of a building but also value creation that meets the expectations of the investment thesis, the governance that are required by institutional clients, the fundamental trust that’s required to run properties with clients across the country. So it’s a neat role and it’s one that’s evolving and I think it’s a very complimentary role.

I work directly with, as I mentioned, property management but I report into Brett Miller, the CEO and yeah, it’s a really interesting opportunity.

DA: Very cool. Well, as you know, Brett’s been a previous guest on the program and so I love that we’re able to get you on now and you know, you and I actually have very similar roles. As CEO, co-founder of a technology startup, my role is very much operational and customer success and I spend equal time trying to grow the business but also really facilitating and nurturing the existing business and being very hands-on to how we can ensure our customers are benefiting from using our technology.

LM: Yeah, absolutely and we have a really capable property management platform and we have a leader for that platform, an SVP based out of Montreal and I’m very much making sure I keep my nose in but my fingers out.

DA: Right. Okay. All right.

So let’s get into it. I think we can both agree commercial real estate has gone through just such an incredible period of unprecedented disruption. Every once in a while, I still like to think we’re through it but maybe we’re not entirely.

But what do you think has changed most operationally? When you think about how we operate buildings day-to-day and as you’re selling this service, what do you think has changed most in this new period of where we’re at?

LM: Well, I’m certainly going to mention AI but I’m going to start with I think in the past five years, a lot of operating real estate was about efficiency and cost control and processes and systems and so running core levels of property management services that meet the needs of owners. I think what’s changed is that through COVID and through technology, we’ve been forced to focus much more on adaptability. We’ve experienced an increased demand for clear communication with our occupants and our tenants and our owners.

I think the space is increasingly landing on the value of trust in relationships more so. I think that the diversity and the experience of COVID has shown us that the value of relationships is very, very important, whether it be with the occupant, whether it be with the owner, whether it be with our vendors. I think that trusted relationship has become very, very important.

The aspect around technology that I would say has evolved is the increasing need for experiences. It’s not just about amenities and coffee bars and great furniture and cool spaces. It’s about enabling occupants and users of real estate to actually get the most out of the real estate.

We work in real estate every day. The reality is our customers are law firms and investment firms and marketing agencies. The real estate has to contribute in some ways more than just the location.

That’s a space that I think has evolved significantly. The obvious one, which I started with, was technology and AI and how data is evolving, how we deliver great judgments and decisions or recommendations with our customers. That’s changed significantly with Claude and ChatGPT and Copilot and co-tenant apps like Hilo that we’re using.

DA: From your perspective, I think the purpose of office has changed, but just what are your thoughts in terms of what influences the decisions you’re making about how you operate, how you provide service? You could extend that to also what you’re investing in, but how is the purpose of office changing? What impact does that have on how you operationalize your business?

LM: Well, I would say the office is no longer where work only happens. The reality is that work happens in people’s basements and coffee shops and lobbies of buildings and certainly in the office. I think that at best, the office remains a place where we can have mentoring, where we can have innovation.

Culture exists within the office. You can have conversations with people. I think there’s networking.

There’s access to computers and systems, but it’s come about in a different way. I think the office is no longer the only place to process information. It’s more about connections these days.

I think people will pay for offices that provide those abilities. Those abilities come from great quality space, absolutely, but they also come from services and amenities and things that make it easier for the occupants to do their jobs. Someone said to me one day, when the person working in the office can work from home, when they come to the office, it better be a better experience.

DA: Yes. I like your comment about what they will pay for. It used to be buildings were generally in the space rental business.

They paid for space. I think that’s the question to be asking. In this particular building, in this particular location, in this particular city, what is the opportunity to do more and offer more?

Ultimately, what will they pay for? What will be valuable to the end user?

LM: They’re still paying for space, David. As a component, they still fundamentally need space. They need to be able to accommodate return to the office.

I don’t think the tenants ever expected when people left that they wouldn’t come back. They didn’t expect that. I don’t think they expected the nature of how people consume space when they came back.

I think they consume it slightly differently. There needs to be an increased ability to collaborate in the office. It’s interesting that some of the challenges of the office today is that we’re still having conversations with people on the computer in the office.

It’s very interesting that that still occurs. Companies still need to attract employees to their businesses. They still need to produce a brand.

They still need to bring employees to the workplace to do functions. I think that traditional real estate still has lots of value. There’s a reason why people want to be downtown by Union Station or in midtown in Toronto.

There’s a reason why it’s easy to bring employees into your environment when they can access communication or transportation networks quickly. Those traditional location, location, location elements of real estate, they’re still fundamental. I think people also want to make sure that the office is a place that enables productivity, engagement, connectivity for employees, and has to advance in some ways their purpose or their outcome.

This is predominantly talking about office. I think in retail, it has to support the exploration of brands, of shopping, of that interface between the virtual world and the physical bricks and mortar world. You have to be able to do returns.

You have to be able to see how a sofa feels. There is still a lot about real estate that is tactile and real.

DA: I agree. With regard to office, there’s this growing belief that commercial real estate in particular needs to think more like the hotel and restaurant industry. For us, that’s not just by adding amenities, but really focusing on hospitality.

I’m just curious what your thoughts are around hospitality in office. For me, that’s not just about class A buildings. I think there’s an opportunity for buildings of all classes, of all sizes to think about hospitality differently.

Any thoughts on that?

LM: I’m aligned with you, certainly, on the space. I think hospitality is ultimately an operating philosophy, to be candid. It’s how you make people feel.

It’s how we approach problem solving. It’s how we anticipate needs. I think about hospitality.

The best organizations are judged not how they deliver against other real estate firms. They’re judged against how they operate against the best experiences they’ve ever experienced. When they come into a space, how quickly a tenant issue can be resolved?

Does a security guard recognize the person when they walk in in the morning? Is the bathroom clean and consistently stocked? Is it easy to move in and out of a space?

Do you get clear communications from the landlord when there’s an emergency? I think hospitality is about fundamentally providing levels of expectations and greater than what the basic is. It has to do something more.

You’re right. I think the great equalizer is that you can do this for any class of real estate. It does come down to the philosophy that you practice it in.

There’s lots of people that say they’re great at customer service, but not everyone is actually good at follow-through.

DA: We think a lot about this. We certainly think about if we’re going to focus in on experience and if the experience can become a differentiator, we’re also thinking about how do we measure success? Because sometimes that experience was a little soft.

It was a little intangible. We’re trying to make it more tangible and have it be as credible a measure of success as occupancy or net operating income. So just curious, picking your brain here, because it would be super helpful to me.

If this notion of hospitality does become the new currency that ultimately real estate trades in, what other ways can we measure how successful we are at delivering experience so that we can demonstrate the value of a platform like ours, for example, and say we achieved A, B, C, and D? What kind of KPIs or what kind of things would be important to an operator like yourself?

LM: Sure. I think experience probably shows up financially, David, before it shows up emotionally. What I mean is through higher retention rates, through fewer customer complaints, candidly through stronger leasing velocities, greater referral behavior from customers, net promoter score information.

I think it shows up in metrics that support do I want to be here? Am I happy with what I’m receiving? Is this a place I would recommend?

So I think it shows up frequently in that environment. We’ve spent a long time focusing on efficiencies and operations, and I think that shift to recognize that we don’t operate real estate for the sake of operating real estate. We operate it for the sake of facilitating an investment thesis of an owner, right?

It’s about net operating income, and it’s about capital return. Those things have to be supported by tenants and occupancy and rent, but I think that hospitality can become an element of service that leads to greater retention, that leads to faster lease transactions, that leads to more satisfied occupants. I think those elements, if you get them right, you get the other side right too.

DA: Well, then we get a direct line, not just a dotted line between the technology and the notion of hospitality and experience directly to how well a building is performing. So I love that. We want to make sure that that’s a straight line and not just an ambiguous line.

We’ve heard repeatedly from guests on our program that it used to be the customer was the person who signed the lease, and now it’s literally every single person who enters your building. So to that end, we think that the role of property management has likely changed as well, and how they view their customer now thinking about every single person that enters the building, how is property management changing or has property management changed, or how should property management respond in terms of how it operates, understanding that this is now a bit of a different landscape in that regard?

LM: Yeah. First off, I think it does circle around and lands around the customer. So that means the property managers today have to have probably greater communication skills than they had in the past.

We’re expecting them to engage and have relationships with and build trust with their occupants. I think that is founded on great customer service skills. So I think there’s got to be skills like that have to exist, and that has to come through not just a native knowledge of service, it has to come from possibly training, it has to come from support and empowerment.

I think along the same lines, I think when you’re focusing on the customer today, it means you’re spending more time on the front lines. And it also means you probably have to use things like technology to do things faster on the back side as well. So you have to be able to do better on data analysis, you have to have a quicker way to sense what to do with the information you’re reading from a data perspective.

So you have to use technologies to help you do that. So there’s an element of customer service and an element of the new environment for property management that requires you to have technology literacy, I’d say. And then I’d also say that we’ve asked property managers to be accountants, sustainability experts, we’re asking them now to be AI experts, we’re asking them to be technology savvy in terms of networking and sophistication and experiences.

There’s a lot we ask of property managers. And at times, property management is a thankless job in the sense that when something doesn’t go wrong, no one thanks you for that. Yet, when things go sideways slightly, they’re often observed and commented on.

So I think the technology and all these elements that have changed in the past 10, 15 years has created much more broad-based skill sets that property managers have to have. They can’t just be technical, they can’t just be accounting people, they can’t just be leasing teams. They have to wear a much broader skill set and they have to use it more frequently.

DA: I often say that commercial real estate is a much tougher business today than it certainly was five or more years ago. It’s not becoming easier.

LM: I think so. I think it’s not becoming easier because we expect them to understand stuff that they never had to do before.

DA: No. With regard to your comments about technology and AI, certainly that’s in the marketplace, that is a topic of tremendous conversation. Just my own personal plug in and around AI or thoughts, we like to say that it’s not a race to AI, it’s a race on how AI can enable more engagement and then to facilitate our people, i.e. your property management teams, to be able to actually spend more time dealing with people.

LM: Oh, absolutely. And I completely agree, by the way. I completely agree.

DA: To free them up, to liberate them, to do the job that’s actually more important and how can we use AI to streamline, make more efficient, reduce friction. That’s the real opportunity.

LM: Yeah. And if technology can be used to identify anomalies and trends and really interesting information that it takes time for a human to look for, if we can do that faster and then apply some judgment to that and do something with it, that’s how we drive value, right? Because there is always going to be a role for humans and we’re going to be interacting with the customer.

And yeah, sure, AI can do that with AI bots and chatbots. But at the end of the day, I think that technology is an enabler, as you suggested. Yeah.

And it means we have to use our judgment still. Right. Agreed.

DA: Let’s take a short commercial break and we will be right back. 

[Commercial Break]

DA: And now I’d like to welcome back to the show Lachlan McQuarrie, Senior Vice President, Business Development and Customer Success at Canderel. We’ve talked a little bit about technology, so this is a great segue. People are increasingly expecting a seamless, personalized, one-stop digital experience in buildings, right?

So from what you’ve seen, you know, currently operating in buildings and from a technology perspective, what do you think has improved the overall experience? What has improved in how building operators are delivering service and experience? And maybe where have we fallen short or where is there still opportunity?

LM: Well, I mean, I think first of all, I would say candidly, I don’t think tenants care about digital transformation at all, to be honest. I think they care about having their services and their problems met in rapid success resolution. But along the way, I would say that, you know, we’ve certainly had lots of successes with technology.

I mean, the very evolution of access control and visitor management and building communication platforms and service requests and mobile apps, you know, fault detection diagnostics. I think technology has certainly enabled us to analyze information much faster, to see stories and trends that the data, a human may have taken much longer to find. And we can now actually connect systems of data across multiple systems and create a better environment for the occupant.

So we can do that better than we ever could before. You know, I think where technology can fall short is that the integration of technology is complicated. So unfortunately, if you have a great use case for technology over here and the data source exists over here and you have another element of technology that needs to rely on that information for another use case, you know, whether it be accounting information and property management information, they have to be tied together.

The connection of those two, that can still be a point of friction. And so the integration of technology is complicated. I think the challenge today is not that we don’t have enough technology to be handed.

I think it’s that we have too much technology operating in isolation. And so that’s a different problem. And I think that, you know, that still has to get worked through.

I mean, I think that in the real estate space in particular, for years, every building system was a snowflake of its own. And the reality is it didn’t have any connection to another system. It ran on its own network.

It ran on its own computer. And so that challenge today still exists in our world because the systems of commercial real estate are not the same as the systems of technology and, you know, in corporate platforms like email and word processing and even your iPhone, you know, which has a lot of standards and specifications that allow app developers to do very cool things provided they follow certain sets of rules. In the commercial real estate world, technology doesn’t quite have those same rules.

There’s lots of proprietary technology, lots of poorly managed integrations, and everyone’s trying to race to solve it. And unfortunately, there’s not a lot of standardization and not a lot of commonality that’s talked about across platforms that would make our lives a lot easier in the commercial space.

DA: Right. I think that’s an interesting point. I think that’s going to continue to be a topic of conversation and an important topic.

Certainly commercial real estate, you know, one of the last to be disrupted by technology. Certainly over the last five years, it’s been a significant period of evolution in that regard. You know, lots of prop tech companies emerging and throwing technology at the industry and real estate owners and operators trying to pick and choose, you know, what makes sense.

And to your point, eventually we’ve got to create an ecosystem where some of these, you know, maybe there are best in class partners in that ecosystem, but how do they connect? How do they play together? And how do we ensure that they’re not disparate, you know, in terms of data, in terms of access and so forth.

So I think that’s being something we’re going to be talking about for certainly quite a long time.

LM: It’d be helpful. I think it’d be helpful, David, if, you know, vendors recognize that owners are not, you know, are just, are not chasing a desire to buy technology, to be honest.

DA: Agreed.

LM: What we’re looking for are ways to make our buildings more efficient, deliver a better customer experience for our occupants and enable our employees to be able to make better decisions and judgment. And if we can…

DA: We’re looking for outcomes.

LM: We’re looking for outcomes, right? Outcomes. Outcomes.

I agree. And so I think at the end of the day, we have to start with the problems first, not the technology.

DA: Agreed. A hundred percent. And to that end, we always say, you know, implementing new tech is not just a checkbox, right?

And mission accomplished. Far from it. You alluded to earlier, you talked about this new, much larger workplace ecosystem, that the office is just one place where we can gather.

There are many, you know, other places, you know, third spaces, the home, the local cafe, a porch at a summer vacation rental property.

LM: Yeah.

DA: That being said, you know, what do you think the role of the physical workplace is? How is it evolving? We’ve talked about some of the purposes.

What makes it irreplaceable? What makes it unique and still important? Again, not the only place, but, you know, how do we help our building partners, our customers still use the physical workplace as that draw for potential, for the best employees that are out there to help them build their business?

LM: Well, the most important thing is to start with is the human, human beings are social, first of all. Right. And so I think that fundamentally we want to work with other humans and that’s where trust is formed.

Right. And so I think, you know, it’s very difficult to, you know, to have mentorship, you know, explore creativity, build culture, you know, build a relationship with someone if you’re doing it over the computer. You know, I think you and I can look at each other, but, you know, I can’t tell, you know, are you fidgeting?

Are you, you know, are you looking away a lot? Like, there’s all kinds of things I can’t tell about our conversation that if we’re in a room together, I’d see how you sitting or if you’re comfortable, if you’re relaxed, if you’re, you know, and I think technology, we haven’t quite figured that part out yet. You know, I know that it’s possible and I would be remiss if I didn’t say we haven’t solved it yet on technology.

Right. But I think that the networking, the collisions that exist in the office, the casual conversations about, hey, you know, where do I find that? Or do we have a case study on that?

Those don’t happen easily on a team’s call. And I have to call you and I have to ask you and I have to bother you and I have to interrupt you. In the office, I can literally turn my head and say, hey, Sam, can you tell me, have we done this before?

Is this something we’ve actually approached with a customer and is this a priority for them? I can do that in two seconds. Right.

And so that relationship, you know, on a very simple, you know, solving a bit of knowledge gap that exists because I haven’t experienced it here. I solved that right away in the office. Yeah.

At home, I struggle for that.

DA: I totally agree. And I think the spontaneity of just turning to your colleague and not scheduling another meeting or a phone call is critical. I was speaking with a young person just the other day.

She just graduated from a master’s program in New York, has been working in New York, coming back to Toronto. And we were talking about what kind of opportunity she’s looking for. And, you know, would she continue to work for the company in New York while in Toronto?

And she said flat out, you know, I’m likely going to resign from that position. I’m coming back to Toronto. I want to be in person.

You know, I’m 27 years old. I’m very social. I want to be with people.

I want to learn. I want to be engaged. I want to collaborate.

In-office experience to her was like the number one priority. And I think that that’s critical.

LM: You know, I’ll be candid. I come in every day, David. I come in the office every day.

You know, if I’m not coming into the office, it’s because I’ve got some distraction at home that I need to address. And so guess what? I’m not being productive if I’m sitting there.

You know, I was productive for years in COVID and we figured it out. But, you know, for me, you know, the coming in and seeing people’s faces and smiling and the social aspect of my job, it’s way more rewarding than sitting in my basement on a computer working solely and independently. There’s times when I value, you know, head down, you know, and I like to be able to just focus and do something.

But I’d much rather do it in an office environment than not.

DA: Agreed. Agreed. When I first created this podcast back in 2020, we were all in lockdown.

We couldn’t, you know, really meet with and talk with people live. And we wanted a way to connect. More importantly, we wanted a way to provide real-time information on what’s really going on in our industry.

And I think for the first part of this podcast and our conversation is very much about what’s happening right now. And we don’t necessarily love, you know, going too far into the future, but, you know, we don’t know the future. We don’t have a crystal ball, but I’d love to just pick your brain.

If you had to focus on two or three priorities over the next three to five years to keep your buildings competitive, to keep your service offering competitive, to win more business, any thoughts on one or two ideas of what that would look like?

LM: Sure. I mean, I’d say the first one is differentiated customer experience. You know, that’s fundamental.

I think that we’re talking about the commoditization of knowledge. And so when that happens, give some, show real judgment, show real engagement with the customer, focus on the customer. So I think that’s really, really important.

I would say to support that, I would say one of the biggest priorities is talent development, you know, build and support people’s understanding and learning of how to use technology, of how to actually deliver customer service, of how do they learn about judgment when they’re starting a new career? How do they learn about value creation? So I’d say give people some real talent development.

I’d say a third one is, and I’d be remiss if I didn’t say a technology one, you know, technology that removes friction and makes it more useful to solve problems and do things better for customers. And so not for technology’s sake, but can we do things with technology that make our lives better as employees, as employers that make it better for our customers or our clients? I mean, I think those are the things, and it’s interesting, they all resolve around, you know, human interaction, you know, training and judgment and service.

And I think, you know, yes, I said there were technology and, you know, AI is embedded in there, as enablers.

DA: Absolutely.

LM: Yeah. I’d say those are really big priorities.

DA: Cool. And I think that is a shift from the way things were and have been where, to your point earlier, it was more about operationalizing and just being efficient. And I don’t think that’s enough today.

I think we’re in agreement. Closing speed round, an opportunity to A, get to know you a little bit better, but also some insights into the business. Looking back, what’s one piece of advice you wish you had received early on in your career?

LM: I came into real estate very quickly from an investment perspective. I wish I’d learned quicker how buildings operate, technically.

DA: Okay.

LM: Okay. You know, I have an engineering degree, but I’ve never actually practiced engineering. So I have, you know, which means I have an understanding, but I’ve never practiced it.

So I wish I’d known more about the fundamentals of how building systems work in a shopping center, in an office building. And I would say, you got to go ahead and do that. You can’t learn it from a book.

Yes, you can take BOMA courses and BOMI courses, and you can take ROPAC courses, but go and get someone from a technical perspective and say, how does the HVAC work? How do you distribute air? How do we communicate in a fire alarm?

How do we heat the building? Go learn that. I wish I’d done that really, really early on.

DA: Real Estate 101. Listen, I think if your point is taken around nurturing talent, I think you’ll agree we all need to be perpetual learners. So in that vein, is there a book or a podcast or a person or a new technology that has helped shaped how you think about the work that you do or has helped shaped your life?

What’s been valuable to you?

LM: I would say, you know, I read a book about a year ago and I apologize, I can’t remember the name of the author, but I remember the name of the book. It’s called Be the Unicorn. Be the Unicorn, 12 Data-Driven Habits.

And so what I learned is there’s 12 habits that you should fundamentally embrace as you build your career out. And they range from be fast, be authentic, embrace agility, anticipate problems, be self-aware of your skills. So it goes into 12 chapters and 12 skill sets.

And it talks about how to use an employee or as a leader, embrace those things quickly to be a better leader. So I really, I thought it was such an awesome book. And it’s written from a, I’ll call it a servant leadership perspective.

You know, how do you, because most of those things are about supporting some decision or supporting a person. And I just thought it was an awesome book. And anyone I come across as starting a new job or in a new position, I always recommend that book, Be the Unicorn.

DA: Very cool. I will check it out myself. Lachlan, if you were not in commercial real estate, and I happen to know you have some other interests beyond commercial real estate, but if you were not in commercial real estate, what industry or profession do you think you would be drawn to and why?

LM: Well, I have a side hustle, as you know, David, I run it and I have an online art gallery. And so I would be an art dealer. And I would be flipping art for profit, which I did briefly as part of a pop up in the fall, but I would be in art.

I love, I find passion in paintings, in sculpture, in talking about them, in selling them. I just find it a passion that I really, really enjoy. And I’d love, if I could go back in time, I’d first off be wealthy, really, from the beginning.

And I’d buy Apple stock and I’d know about it. And then I would also, I would also take art history and learn about art, more than just experience it, I would learn about it first.

DA: All right. Awesome. Awesome.

Lachlan, thank you so much for joining me on the program today. I continue to learn from you every time we have another conversation. Yeah.

And love tracking the path that you’ve taken. And, you know, as we, as this new role takes shape for you, I think you’re going to, it’s a great time, likely in your career to be evolving into this kind of role. Looking forward to collaborating and supporting you in that role as well and finding how our paths will continue to cross and continue the conversation.

The industry continues to change. Our roles continue to evolve. And I think conversations like this not only help us do our job better, but hopefully help our listeners as well.

LM: Yeah. Thank you very much, David. It’s always great to come across people in your career that are like-minded, first of all, and that have similar pursuits that line up and do things that we both want to do for customers. 

So it’s awesome. Thank you.

DA: Yeah. Great. Well, let’s continue the conversation for now.

All the best. And again, thanks for joining me on the program today.

LM: Thank you, David.

DA: That’s a wrap on today’s episode of TEN. I want to thank Lachlan for joining me on the program. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review.

It helps others find the show. Thanks for listening. And until next time, I wish you continued success in building community where you work and live.