MK: Sure. Well, my journey started, I wanted to be a barrister in England. I was in the legal field and fell into the world of events and actually started doing infrastructure investment events to begin with, which was fascinating. I did them both in Europe and the U.S. and worked within this finance events division and rose up within there and basically came to the U.S. through that job and ended up taking over an events business here in New York and then broadened the events. I was working across all types of different sectors. During the pandemic, I then went to a firm which kind of sat in between family offices and institutional investors and alternative funds. So things like private funds, real estate funds, VC funds. And we had a technology that matched the appropriate people to opportunities they might like to invest in. And that got sold to Apex. And then after that, I was looking for which direction to go in, whether to go into tech or whether to go back into events. And I kind of found a great opportunity with a lot of people that I knew well, which is to join the Blueprint team as president and essentially try and take this event to the next level. And it was very exciting because it kind of blended a lot of things I’ve been working on in the past. A very tech forward event for the built world, but also utilising my event experience. So it’s something I’ve been working on for two years now. The event itself is going into four years. It’s fourth year in September. And it’s just been a wonderful journey.

DA: Amazing. So maybe a two part question. So you level set us with, you know, it’s been four years since the conference began. Maybe give us a little bit of, you know, what has evolved over that four year period? I’d love to understand that. And more importantly, I’d like to know, you know, you coming into this role, why do you think you were so uniquely suited to help take the event and take the programme, you know, to the next level?

MK: Yeah, it’s a fascinating thing in terms of building up events. So we have a particular kind of outlook on the built world, as it were. And so the event studio that we’re a part of has experience in building leading industry events. And typically, kind of the way we look at it is similar to maybe how a VC might look at space. So we look at it in terms of the totality of it, and there’s opportunities within that. So in the real estate world, you know, you have a tonne of different conferences, just primarily on office space or on single family, or multifamily or, you know, brokerage related events. And, but as an investor, you kind of want to look at it in a broader sense. And we kind of look at it the same way. And we feel by looking at the world, we can kind of identify the best of the best across these areas, and they can inspire each other to kind of push progress forward. So that’s kind of our philosophy. And we maybe over index on working with VCs and founders and people kind of trying new things, essentially. So that was very much kind of like what occurred in year one. And then the industry starts to find out about this, what is this, this, this new event that’s that’s taking place where there’s a lot of buzz about it, because there’s all these new ideas, a little bit different from from the kind of standard, regular events that might happen every year, a feel to it. And we invest a lot in the show experiences as well. And so in terms of kind of me coming in, it’s about the challenge you have with a broad scope like that is as you grow, and we expect 3000 people in September is how to make ecosystems within that feel welcome, and at the same time, be able to inspire each of those sectors. And that’s, that’s the the biggest kind of challenge facing us as as you grow. And it’s a it’s a challenge that I kind of meet head on. And it’s exciting to me to kind of like work problem solving, and figure out ways to unlock those kind of communities within communities. And that’s been been, and in terms of being suited to that, that’s just something I’ve put a lot of brain and effort into over brainpower, I should say over over the years. And so all different ways to do that through through my career. And it’s certainly come into use at Blueprint.

DA: Very cool. Before we dive in, I’m just curious, as we’re about the evolution of the event, and now four years old, if there was one thing that you were to share with me that we might that might be different in 2024? What would that be really something that you’re really excited about?

MK: Yeah, sure. So, in terms of one component, I’m really excited about this vision stage that we’ve put together. And that’s where we’ve brought top developers to the stage to talk about projects, they’re particularly excited about. So the Baltimore Peninsula project by Marianne Gilmartin, as an example, Richard Riguez, who built the Burj Khalifa, or Casey Roelofs, who’s building a kind of new urban community. All of these are great examples of visionary projects that are kind of, so it’s not necessarily technology, it’s just kind of a new way of thinking. And that’s kind of like what we think a Blueprint person is, are you are you doing something kind of head on in a different way? So that’s something I’m particularly excited about in terms of a new component. We’re working very closely with Brad Hargreaves from Thesis Driven, who will be the MC for that. So I’m super excited about that as a new component. And I know you said one, but I’ll give you another one for free. And that’s the Build World Challenges, where you have owners and operators like the likes of Pgym, Levine, Starwood, Newberg, Merman, they’ve created a competition for generative AI startups to, it’s almost like a reverse pitch. And we like that because they’ve identified that as we want to find more of these solutions, so come to us, as opposed to just people kind of, you know, proposing what they want, you know, or trying to find people that say it’s kind of the reverse. They’re actually saying, we want solutions, come and get it. So we have a part of the show where the selected few will present their generative AI solution, and we’re quite excited about that.

DA: That’s great. Sounds very exciting. Just, you know, to level set for myself and my experience, you know, I started this podcast, sort of in the heart of the pandemic, just as a way of connecting with people and really trying to reach out to people during a pretty difficult time. It was also at a time when the world was very polarizing, particularly in conversations around commercial real estate, and we didn’t really know, you know, what the future looked like. We certainly have a much better sense of that today. And I think our conversations are moving way beyond, you know, the return to work to just talking more about the future of work and how and where people work. And I, for one, you know, still think that buildings are an integral part of that much larger workplace ecosystem. So I’m really interested in just talking, you know, about how commercial real estate is continuing to respond and evolve to meet the needs and how it’s embracing technology to ultimately deliver a better experience, both virtually and in person. And I think your conference is probably helping to bring together so much of that conversation. So I’m just curious, again, you can share with our listeners around how your business is, again, continuing to evolve, not only this year, but sort of your long range vision to continue to meet the needs of this industry, which is certainly in probably one of the most important periods of change that I can ever remember. And I’ve been in the industry for quite some time. But what factors are sort of driving and influencing the directions that you’re taking and the things that you’re thinking about from the perspective of your conference?

MK: Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot there in that question, because the commercial office space has very notable challenges, as we all know. It’s in the press every day. There’s headlines like extend and pretend and these type of issues that are, you know, in the backdrop. And in terms of kind of the return to work question, really, what has been clear to everybody is that the pandemic has put a lot of pressure on office buildings and the purpose and just kind of like what was just taken for granted. I mean, you know, before the pandemic, so many of us just went into work five days a week, and that was just a given, you know, really what it really was. It was a minority, really, that kind of worked in a more flexible environment. And we’re just operating in a different environment now. But the buildings, when it comes to buildings, there are a lot of buildings out there that probably were just quite subpar in terms of, you know, energy efficiency, fit for purpose in terms of what people needed to do. And now, you know, you do have more capabilities that are needed in buildings as well. So in terms of, you know, let’s say we’re on a virtual Zoom call now, that’s just the reality that you might have people that work remotely, and you have people in the office, so you need to kind of bridge those gaps, meeting spaces or abilities for people to have kind of a quiet space within buildings. We’re seeing that the more modern buildings, there’s a lot of opportunities and actually people embracing these office environments. That’s exciting and in terms of kind of the conference, we’re really excited to have, you know, people like Jamie Haddari, for example, from Industrious, you know, who has been, you know, maybe one of the kind of success stories in terms of, you know, flexible space within the office environment. So we’re excited to kind of hear what he has to say on the topic as well as people like Nick from BTS. And then we have other topics as well that do focus on another element, which is just becoming more and more important, which is obviously the decarbonisation of buildings and that’s a huge driver that is only going to keep going in terms of an underlying factor in how we adapt our buildings. And it’s just, you know, we’re seeing that globally. So that’s something that we’re addressing, not only within our event, but we also have partners within the show, like FIFR doing a dedicated climate summit. So they’re addressing that in terms of just broadly how the climate tech in the built world is advancing, as well as we have panels like Joe Amador, for example, and Schneider Electric and Carrier talking specifically about buildings. So that’s just a little glimpse of some of the issues I see in the backdrop. And then in terms of kind of how we’re addressing it through the conference, we have content related to that and then we have particular groups, which are very, who are trying to address those issues, essentially.

DA: Great. Specifically with regard to the office footprint, talk to me how you think the topic of space utilisation is going to be addressed at this year’s conference, you know, really zeroing in on the conversations around the purpose of space or how to turn, you know, that purpose, you know, to become an influencer and help people engage or experience that space. Anything sort of in and around that? I mean, we obviously, there’s been a lot of negativity around, you know, the footprint and utilisation. Do you, you know, what are you seeing for this year’s conference?

MK: Yeah, it’s a good question. So the interesting, great thing about Blueprint is that it’s across the built world. So we have different sectors kind of looking at how they’re utilising space. So, for example, in retail, we’re looking at how they’ve got, how mixed uses is being done and how they’re kind of maybe incorporating technology in different ways. And retail, which is quite, even though it’s on retail, has probably, it’s probably a session that anybody would want to go to. So that’s maybe one example. And then we have another session with regards to, actually, we brought out, so we have a partnership with Reveny as well. So I’m based in New York and a lot of the people, the Blueprint followers are from New York, even though we go to Vegas each year. So that’s actually kind of like a, we take a deep dive into how is New York kind of changing in terms of space and how developers are looking at it. So we have people like Stora Rudin company talking on that issue. So in terms of that topic, there’s plenty that’s going into that. And so it’s kind of like in terms of can space be used for different, repurposed for different spaces? How can the building structure be done? And things of that nature.

DA: Mm-hmm. In terms of the conference itself, if budget and resources were not an issue, you’re president of an organization, I’m sure you have a budget to work within. However, if budget were not an issue, what three new initiatives, what three new ideas, what three new concepts would you undertake to position your business, your event, your conference for success over the next three to five years?

MK: What a great position to be in where budget’s not a factor.

DA: Exactly.

MK: You know, a big mantra that I love to subscribe to, I guess, is the Google with constraints, where you put constraints. It’s like if you had to get from point A to B, the subway was closed, how do you do it type of thinking. So this is the flip of that, where it’s kind of like you don’t have the constraint of the budget.

DA: Magic wand, magic wand, no constraints.

MK: Which would be, you know, which I like a lot. So David, just to clarify in terms of what you’re looking for there, so in terms of having no budget constraints, are you talking with regards to attending the event or are you talking with regards to the business of the event?

DA: I’m just curious to anything that, you know, anything that you guys are thinking about in terms of, you know, a long-term vision for things that you’d like to do. Sometimes you have ideas, but you are constrained by available budget, you know, whether it be with, you know, format or, you know, the type of the value or quality of the entertainment, the show itself. I’m just wondering if there’s anything that, you know, you’d love to see happen that maybe right now is, you know, you got to think about the financial side of the conversation.

MK: Yeah. So in terms of kind of the financial aspect, we maybe treat the events a little bit differently to our organisers. We actually, we kind of do operate a bit with that mindset. We spend very much on the experience and so we kind of feel that we invest in the short-term for the long-term because we think that that will pay off. So certain things that we want to invest in and we do our act to invest in and we do also we have and to bring more of those kind of physical things to the show. So as an example, we have Neo Homes is a, they manufacture doors. And so that will be on the show floor as a robot making doors. It’s kind of amazing in a 20 by 20 space. And we just think people haven’t really seen that type of thing before. So some of the, we also work with very closely with FIRE, who’s the foundation for second century ventures. And they have an area where you have like a, they call it like the petting zoo, where you can kind of touch and feel products. So if budget was no constraint, I would essentially enable more of that, more of things that you can kind of walk around, see, touch, be inspired by. And there is a cost to that. It’s very expensive to assign space in a Vegas show. So that’s that. And we do, one thing that we do as well is we actually lose money in terms of on a particular component where we invest in startups to be able to have a nice kiosk to be able to present their technology. And that’s something that event organizers typically don’t do. They might just kind of like give a free space or whatever, they don’t actually spend on it. And we do that to create a more elevated proposition because they are important for the future of the, you don’t know which startup is going to maybe become the next CoreLogic. And so we have CoreLogic in those type of large firms, but we also try to kind of invest back to enable the little guy to kind of be part of the, be included and not to just be shunted to the side, but to be a feature. And that’s where ultimately we expect people walking around can kind of enable new ideas to take hold. And that’s, that’s really what we’re about.

DA: Right. Well, I think a lot of those ideas you’ve just suggested are all in and around experience, which is a good segue to my next question. You know, I think we can agree that building owners and operators, they’re no longer in the space business. The whole industry has really changed. And I think they understand that they’re, you know, they really need to create destinations of choice. They need to bring people back and bring people to the physical workplace because they choose to be there. And so experience is really becoming, you know, the business that building operators are in, and they’re looking way beyond, you know, just the physical space to all the other opportunities, whether it be amenities, whether it be programs and services, you know, to all these other types of offerings to enhance that experience. So we really believe customer experience is what it’s all about. That’s obviously, you know, our DNA and a big part of how, you know, where we spend our time thinking about the built world. I’m just curious, any advanced intel on how this phenomenon of customer experience and buildings might play out at the conference in terms of any other panel discussions, exhibitors, sponsors, you know, are you seeing that same uptake and the priority being placed on experience? And how do you think that will show itself during the conference itself?

MK: Very much so. And in terms of the, that’s basically going back to the earlier point in terms of kind of the change of the pandemic, there’s just a higher expectation now of experience across the board. And that’s not just in buildings, that’s in regards to events as well. So in terms of kind of like when people go to an event, they expect more, and that you’re having to deliver more. And we also have a hospitality kickoff summit for the first time that we’re doing. And so that’s very much something in terms of this, this component of short-term rental, kind of adapting hotels to kind of provide different, different types of short-term rental opportunities and the experience people might have that the hotel and SDR industry has been changed beyond belief. Obviously, Airbnb is a big component of that as well, and you have a different type of experience. So that’s more on that component. But when it comes to kind of like office space and buildings, one of the things we’re also doing is having curated roundtable discussions where people can actually engage with topics like this. And I know that you have kindly volunteered to host one as well. And so we’ll be diving into particular topics. So I might throw that back to you as well, if you had any thoughts on kind of what you might engage with that topic, because I know that you’re working with a number of like owners and operators on that issue.

DA: Yeah, I mean, for us, you know, we think a lot about how the whole dynamic, the relationships, how they’ve evolved in, you know, within buildings. And, you know, it used to be the language, you know, landlord-tenant. It was very intentional. And we see that as change and changed forever. And we really think now it is about partnership, it is about collaboration. So the topic that we’re looking forward to delving deeper into is all in and around, you know, how building owners, operators, managers, occupiers, and occupants need to come together to collaborate to truly create what we call destinations of choice, places where people want to be. And so I think there needs to be a lot more conversation around what that looks like, and how those partnerships can be enhanced, and how we can get beyond just the transactional nature of those relationships to a point where we’re helping everyone achieve their end goal. And, you know, whether to drive more productivity, drive more, you know, enhance their quality of the experience of their people, you know, help to build better businesses, help to create more networking opportunities within a building where people not only within one space, but, you know, share different shared spaces can come together to collaborate and learn and explore. So we just think that we are at a moment in time where really, everything has the potential to change, but we’ve got to have the right people engaged in those conversations.

MK: Yeah, exactly. And, you know, as you’re speaking there, I’ve listened to, I’m a big fan of Brad Hargree’s podcast, and Joe Pollock was on there. And he talked a little bit to the point of like, that he didn’t really feel it was that impactful with regards to mayors or governors saying get back to the office, you know, your city needs you type mantra. He was kind of he kind of looks at it more like, you know, what’s the value prop for people and for cities. And he basically, you know, points out, and I think this is true, is that cities have, you know, as technology evolves, cities does have a big advantage in terms of that component. So potentially, there might be more and more people that might live in the space of cities and interact with it in different ways. And that’s, that’s going to be an interesting development as we see the future there. And that kind of like touches on that point of just tenants, and landlords, the relationship is just different. Now, they may even be kind of more partners. And we’re, we’re kind of seeing it in terms of the innovation might actually be more done that might be spearheaded by the tenant, because they want to create this experience for their, for their employees, or for their customers, or for the people just, and great touch points that maybe are not possible. I mean, I live, I live here in New York, and the way I’m seeing space be used for different types of meetups all across the year with different office space being used in different ways, is, is truly fascinating. And so that’s where you can kind of see it’s already in those instances, you can see, it’s, it’s, it’s kicked on, you know, post pandemic.

DA: Absolutely. And I think the opportunity for innovation, not only through technology, but just through the way in which spaces are created and organized and maintained is, is really important as well. And when I rattled off all of those stakeholders, the one I did not suggest, but you did in the end was the city. And, and I think that is an important component, because ultimately, these buildings are all located in neighborhoods and cities. And obviously, the cities have a lot to, to be gained by having a vibrant, you know, central business district of people that are working, engaging, collaborating. So they’re an important stakeholder, I should not have neglected them in that conversation. Let’s take a short commercial break, and we will be right back.

COMMERCIAL BREAK

DA: And now I’d like to welcome back to the show Martin Kelly, president of Blueprint, the future of real estate. I’m enjoying our conversation. And again, thank you so much for being with me today. Commercial real estate is obviously significantly impacted by the introduction of new technologies. They’re playing a significant role in how building operators are looking to deliver great experience and also how they operate their buildings. Your conference is, I think, about bringing the best of commercial real estate operators and technology partners to the table. So just curious about any thoughts you have on the evolving tech stack, on how it’s coming together to both deliver operational efficiency, but at the same time, impact how people interact with the physical space. What are you seeing? How do you think the conference is evolving to meet that need of bringing together the real estate operators and the owners with great technology partners?

MK: Great question. I think in terms of the commercial space, it will be interesting to see how the Yardy We Work deal fleshes out. I think there’s been different theories in terms of the rationales behind that. And so that’s just one to look out for. And I think in terms of going to that, taking a step back in terms of how people look at different tech stacks, it’s always interesting in terms of how decisions are made around selecting different technologies and what’s the decision-making unit within the owner or operator in terms of looking at that. What role does the CFO play? What role are people investing themselves into startups and incorporating those? And we see all different types of models at Blueprint or different ways people are doing it. And I don’t know if there’s one, there’s not one right answer. There’s certainly a number of different approaches. So that’s always fascinating to me is basically I get the chance to, I’m a very lucky guy in terms of a lot, each day I spend my time talking to people like yourself, David, and learning and understanding and seeing how they’re doing it. And in terms of kind of that tech stack question though, that’s a challenge that everybody has. There’s no silver bullet there and there’s just different ways of doing it. So one way that we try and help out with that is we enable kind of focus groups to kind of come in and basically address particular challenges they have with selecting their tech stack, utilizing the tech stack, getting adoption. So that’s certainly something that we kind of feel we fit a need for the industry.

DA: Amazing. Before we move on to our closing speed round, I’m just curious with Blueprint just weeks away, an opportunity for you just to give a quick pitch. If somebody has not yet signed up or not yet thought about going to Blueprint, why should they think?

MK: What are they waiting for?

DA: This is what you’ve been waiting for. Why should they think about coming to Blueprint this year?

MK: Yeah, very good question. And that’s it. In terms of kind of building an event like this, we have to be very conscious of people’s time and effort. And one of the reasons we do our show in Vegas is because we feel that people can really dedicate time to really being in an environment where they can kind of have an aha moment. And we think the commitment of traveling to a location to get in that headspace is super important if you really want to have that aha moment, as opposed to just kind of drifting in and out of a local event. So that’s something that we kind of feel we are positioned well to do. And in terms of justifying the travel, the expense, the time there, we are trying to create an environment where it’s a bit different to other shows, where it’s not like used car sales, where it’s very clear who’s a buyer and who’s a seller. You’re just one side of the aisle. And what we try and do is gather very senior people who can make partnerships with each other. And people are there for all different types of purposes. People are there to look for investors. People are there to look for business partnerships. And because we kind of have such a senior level of attendee and speakers, you can look on our site, it’s pretty much founders or managing partners or heads of innovation. These people, the vibe is a bit different. And that’s in essence what we encourage people to kind of check it out, be part of it. And ultimately, each person’s experience could be very different. You could go there for just for, you could just stack your time with meetings, which I know some people do. And then other people might be there to learn and go to many of our kind of content sessions. And so your experience can be tailored to what you’re looking to get out of it. But ultimately, we feel that it’s a collective spirit of people who are trying to see the built world differently. And whether that’s technology or whether that’s projects or whether that’s just as a whole, that’s what we’re all about.

DA: Amazing. Well, you and I met just a short while ago in June at New York Tech Week at a PropTech event and had a great conversation. And I was very appreciative of your invitation to get involved and come down and be a part of the experience. And just, you know, I can’t wait. I’m really looking forward to it. And I appreciate all that you and your team have done to welcome us into the Blueprint community and make us feel welcome and give us an opportunity to showcase ourselves. So a big shout out to you. And I’m glad, really looking forward to the opportunity.

MK: Well, just on that note, that was an office space that overlooked Central Park. So in terms of experience, that was pretty impressive. It was. And the location of that event. Not everybody can have a window view like that.

DA: I had some great window during that entire week. During that entire week, I had some great window views there. That was one of them. Obviously, some amazing views while I had several meetings at Hudson Yards, which is just an incredible, incredible experience and venue. So lots of opportunities. Our closing speed round, Martin, is an opportunity to get to know you a little bit better on a more personal level. So a few quick questions for you. Looking back, what’s the one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you were first starting your career?

MK: I would say I maybe wish earlier somebody said, you know, take calculated risks. I did kind of get I got that advice. That’s how I ended up in in the US was when I was debating whether to come. My global CEO at the time said, why are you so how old are you? I think I was 24, 25. He said, why are you being so risk averse as I was weighing up the different kind of, you know, doing checklists on pros and cons. And that kind of got under my skin. I’m like, why am I being risk averse? So, you know, I think my advice to a younger self would be take calculated risks, not silly risks, but ones that could essentially enable you to grow.

DA: Yep, it’s great advice. Do you have a favorite book or podcast that has positively impacted your approach to work or life?

MK: Well, I’ve just finished Elon Musk’s autobiography. And that’s in front of mind. And the reason for it, I think it’s quite well with how we look at events. And what I mean by that is he has an obsession. And just it’s just clear that product over everything else. And probably invest in the product sales will come. The product is my is product is king. And you have to obsess over the details with the product and really invest in it. And for success to come of that. And that’s how we look at events. You know, we basically spend a lot of money curating experience making thinking very carefully about what is the product, what is somebody can and that’s, that’s not that simple with events, because it’s, it’s not something physical in terms of the product that you use, it’s something that you go to, it’s an experience.

DA: It’s still a product. Yeah, it’s still a product.

MK: What is the product? And just kind of to my last point was, the product somebody might, one person might consume an event is different to another person’s product, because they can experience the event in a different way. Right. So we have to spend time obsessing over that.

DA: Yep, fair enough. And you’re right, everybody can come to the show, same show and come away with a very different feeling a very different experience. So you’ve got to understand all those different expectations and try to meet as many of them as possible.

MK: Exactly.

DA: No easy task. Name one way in which technology has improved how you work or live.

MK: So I think it’s amazing how tech is advancing up now with regards to things where, like Canva, where, you know, you don’t need to have a design background to produce pretty good stuff. And people can collaborate on it so easily. And that’s just, I think, the collaboration tools, you know, even Google Sheets and things where people could just be working cross company, you know, cross department, very simply, that’s only something on a day to day, which I found helpful. And then, and then in terms of kind of like, going to our event, we have technology that we have in our event is our event app, we work with grip is a famous app organizer. But the way you interact with technology is important to us, we actually have layered on over the years, we’ve always laid on our own tech on tech platforms. So I think, you know, there’s an opportunity for people to, to work with tech, but maybe not just get given not not do not just use what you’re given, but to work with it and to give it that extra level. Again, that’s obsession over product. But that’s how I think often we need to think about tech, because sometimes people complain about tech is not meeting my needs. But have you layered on what you think how it how it could be helpful for you, because each company’s got different needs.

DA: Right? What factors do you consider when deciding where you work on any given day? You or your team for that matter?

MK: On what we work on?

DA: So I know on where you work, are you in the office? Are you working remotely? Your view of the world of work?

MK: Yeah, sure. So in terms of the time somebody that work in the office, I’m in the office, recording this podcast as we speak in Manhattan. And then I live in Cobble Hill, Brooklyn. So I go back there. And in terms of kind of my, my decisions on that I actually kind of like having a bit of routine coming into the office, getting my coffee from Joe and the juice and what have you and having it and be able to leave my laptop in the office. I like that. But then also I have a young son, two year old. So the flexibility balance, pick him up from daycare, or, you know, to be able to maybe have Friday where I’m at home or work from home or, or even do half days where you might be going to an event or what have you. That often influences in terms of the influences usually, is it that I am doing that day? Am I going into the city to an event? Or am I at home because of even, you know, personal reasons might be, it might be helpful to work from home.

DA: Right. Flexibility. If you weren’t doing what you’re doing right now, what would you be doing?

MK: Yeah, that’s a great, a great question. And I kind of think back to one of my, one of my previous jobs was working in the cinema. I used to work for Odeon, and I love that job. You’d be able to go in and catch 15 minutes of a film, then go to another film and catch 15 minutes and just piece together films. I just, I’ve always loved movies. So maybe if it doesn’t work out for me with the event industry, after a while, I’ll just go back to working in the film industry.

DA: Right. Well, it’s not too far off from what you’re doing. You’re still in the entertainment business. That’s true. Martin, it’s been a pleasure spending time together on the program. Really glad you could be with us. Looking forward to our continued collaboration. Looking forward to seeing you in Vegas in September. And obviously continuing to chat between now and then. Thanks so much again for taking the time and continued success. And I hope Blueprint will be a fantastic event this year. And I’m looking forward to continuing our relationship going forward.

MK: Oh, me too, David. Thank you so much for having us on. And we look forward to seeing you in September for sure.

DA: All right. We’ll talk soon. Take care now. I want to thank Martin Kelly for joining me on this episode of TEN and for contributing to the global conversation around buildings being part of a robust ecosystem, helping to build great companies, that they are vital in the effort to cultivate and support great people and teams. The future of the workplace will likely take many forms and we will continue to explore what that looks like together. Subscribe to TEN for more conversations with leading CRE industry professionals and experts who all have something to say about tenant experience and the future of the workplace.

We love hearing from you, so if you enjoyed this episode of TEN, please share, add your rating, and review us through your preferred podcast provider. If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on a future episode, please reach out to me directly at david@hiloapp.com and until our next episode, I wish you all continued success in building community where you work and live. Thank you.