NE:  David, thank you so much for having us and so happy to be here. Yeah. So my my journey, I always tell folks is a bit non-linear and a bit all over the place. But as I meet more folks within our fine industry and seem to be that, that’s a bit more of the norm. I am an attorney by trade. I hail from the tropical town of Canton, Ohio. I did my undergraduate studies in Pittsburgh, the Duquesne University, and then law school at Cleveland State University, where I then practiced law for about 15 years. Always had my eye on that. In-house general counsel seat. I think I just knew early on that I wanted to be inside of an organization and part of that ecosystem.So very fortunate to win a coveted role as general counsel for an industrial developer in Cleveland, Ohio. And they were getting ready to embark on a huge 15 year project to quadruple the size of their operating portfolio. And I was a legal department of one. So I very immediately learned the lessons of operations and the critical role of processes and procedures and standardization. And I loved it. And I loved it. I became it was there, though, that I got my first kind of front row seat to just kind of be inefficiencies that are inherent in our industry, which was in no way unique to that organization. Right. It was you know, I worked in many organizations and for some reason, I just wanted to be part of building something.That’s all I knew. I knew in that role as an attorney that I really wouldn’t be able to get really far in terms of the solution. So this is going to seem like quite the leap. But I knew I wanted to stay in the industry and I knew I’d be wanted to be part of building something. That’s all I knew. I had no idea where that job was going to come from. One day on LinkedIn, there was this Proptech company out here in Boston where I live now, and there was this big, big job description. It’s a director of customer success. And in all caps I said real estate attorneys only apply. But this is not an attorney role. Looking around like, okay, who’s listening to me? You know? And it was funny because this company had actually targeted me as a prospect and I kept blowing up to the demo right. To learn how to save time and to get to the irony. And trust me, I reached out to them and the rest is history. And so I was employee number five, sold everything I had in Cleveland, the house, the car, the furniture, and took a leap and came out here to Boston to be employee number five for this tech company. And I was head of the customer success team. I had no idea what customer success meant. To be honest with you, I read that job description and I was like, You know what? I still don’t know what this job is about, but I’ll take it. That’s all I knew. And a fantastic product that automated the drafting of commercial lease agreements for institutional owners across the country. And so I had the good luck of working with fantastic organizations across the country, specifically with their in-house legal departments and leasing departments, helping them standardize their leasing, onboarding them onto our platform. And it was there, you know, after onboarding so many customers, I started seeing a pattern and I went in with this assumption, right? David I was like, Oh, these are some of those sophisticated owners across the country, right? That are building some of the most sophisticated assets. And I wanted or the assumption is that surely their operations will mirror that. And again, I am in no way mean to offend anyone, but I sort that their legal departments were leaps and bounds behind in terms of understanding the critical role of standardization and process optimization in the use of technology. And there was a theme and and once I work with these teams though and they overcame that hurdle rate change management and whatnot, I could see the benefits to them at the time that was being saved in these attorneys over and over again in these leasing agents. Like, I never want to go back to doing things. So a light bulb went off in my head. David I was like, there’s, there’s something here. There’s a need. There’s an extraordinary benefit from getting folks over that hurdle. But there’s a really big gap right now that not a lot of folks are addressing in how to get folks from point A to point B. And what helped me was as general counsel, so I had this immediate credibility, right? Right. Where they immediately I could say to them, I was in your seat, I understand your pain and I understand the source of your hesitation, but you got to trust me. And here’s why. So anyway, I was with that organization for four years and January 22 I left and I decided to do something. I always said I’d rather e glass am doing and starting my own firm. I guess it’s a matter of timing. And so I opened an all in one CRE legal and advisory firm, which is what I am doing today. It’s back to practicing law, which is something that I didn’t think that I would be doing, but I’m doing it my way using innovation, using technology where appropriate to be able to serve my clients. And I also have an advisory and consulting business as well in which I work with these same types of organizations who are looking to redesign their internal operations in order to drive efficiencies and also make recommendations to them as well as it relates to the adoption of technology. So that’s that’s right. 

DA:  In a nutshell. Awesome. Well, a great journey and interesting to see how sort of you take it. Some a couple of twists and turns, but you’re back practicing again, yet still deeply embedded in the Proptech world. We’ll talk more about that. Ryan, let’s hear from you and share with us sort of how you got into this industry and a little bit about your journey. 

RE:  Yeah. David, thanks. Thanks for having me again on your podcast. It’s it’s really was a pleasure last time. And, you know, I have a very different background than Edem being being raised in Manhattan. No offense, me being an MBA that I’ve enjoyed living in, one of the most amazing business centers in the world, especially when it comes to real estate. So, you know, if you’re a developer, designer, contractor, there’s so many opportunity this here. And I’ve been lucky enough to have those opportunities, you know, in front of me. So as I once I graduated George Washington University, I pursued so many different positions. One was being a compliance analyst for Bank of New York. It was a great experience. It gave me a lot of knowledge and perspective about the banking world. But I really realized at the end of the day that real estate was my ultimate passion. And so I was soon hired for Empire Management as an associate. Empire Management is a private real estate firm, were based out of New York City and we oversee a portfolio of over 600 multifamily apartments and over 500,000 square feet of office and retail. So I began to understand the work and got inspired to go back to school and pursue my masters of science in real estate after college to really understand real estate in a more structural way. So once I graduated from the program, I was promoted to senior director at the firm and as an asset manager began working directly with the executives at the firm to collaborate on future acquisitions and development projects within our portfolio. 

DA:  Amazing. Well, and it is through our connection through Empire and our company Halo that you and I were fortunate to connect. And we’ve been collaborating for quite some time and again, it’s great to have you back on the program. You know, since launching our podcast, we’ve always tried to provide a real time view into what is going on in the commercial real estate industry. You know, without the bias. And often those polarizing proclamations from the extreme positions on both sides of the ongoing conversation around the future of work, you know, we believe that we’re now at a point in time where the conversation should just be about doing great work and how places and spaces can be used to allow people to really build great companies. So today I’m really interested in discussing how commercial real estate will continue to evolve to meet people’s needs, and more importantly, how technology can further enhance both that in-person experience and the remote virtual experience. So let’s dove in to both of you just there. The two of you are embarking upon a new project. I love to just understand how you two met and then a little bit of, you know, what? What was the genesis behind this new collaboration and the launch of CRE Unplugged and possible David. 

NE:  I’ll, I’ll take the first half of that. Thank you. So Ryan and I are both members of now for those of you that aren’t following that commercial real estate development Association and we both sit on a national forum, which is new technology in the Built Environment Forum. So think of us as a think tank. Brain trust will roommates twice a year with other fantastic folks from the industry and discuss all things technology and how folks are using technology within their portfolios.  And we see demos of great up and coming products and whatnot. And we were at a dinner and Ryan and I were seated next to each other and chatting. And, you know, there was this immediate kinship. I felt that I was talking to my brother Ryan, being for lawyers, Manhattan and I being from Canton, Ohio. We actually had a lot in common in regards to our backgrounds and our upbringings and whatnot. And we just I felt like I was talking to a long time friend at that point, and we started talking about our observations in the industry, our own kind of paths, as we had just shared with all of you. And I just shared with Ryan that I had just launched my own little podcast at the time, and his eyes just lit up and he’s like, Oh my God, I knew I wanted to do so long and just, you know, we’re going back and forth. And the one thing that I said, right, Ryan, it is so important to me that whatever I do just has a human centered element of authenticity in it, because that’s what that’s the center of our industry. Right. You know, and I think that’s so much of your guys philosophy at high level as well is spaces for people to talk about experiences. And I and I share that with them and and we just we couldn’t stop talking to them. And I actually think I’ll let Ryan take it from there as well as have our podcast. 

DA:  Amazing. Yeah. 

RE:  Yeah. You know, the reality is, is we both realize that Corey is very siloed and how it operates. So, you know, we decided that we wanted to do this podcast so we can change that. We want to provide critical and up to date information in a whole new way. So we want to bridge CRM and Proptech with people that are designed to serve through. And for me to have access of all and dare we say, humorous conversations between developers, entrepreneurs, owner occupiers and other key players. We want to make it like. So our goal is really to increase the access and understanding to CRM proptech to a broad and diverse audience representing the Occupy hires of the built world. 

DA:  Mm hmm. 

RE:  So we are very passionate about real estate technology and innovation. And and it’s our mission to really usher this new era of commercial real estate that need been. And I talk about all the time. 

DA:  Very cool. Well, listen, I having done this myself, now, this is season number five. You guys are kicking off season five for us. So thank you. It is a lot of fun. It’s an amazing way to meet people. It’s an amazing way to continue the conversation. So I wish you guys the best of luck. We’ll talk a little bit more about your new podcast. But in the interim, I would just love to talk a little bit more about what we’re seeing today in our industry. So, Ryan, you know your day job in commercial real estate, you share with our listeners sort of how your business is continuing to evolve and innovate to meet the needs of your customer. What factors are driving or influencing the direction that you’re taking? 

RE:  You know, at Empire, we are committed at staying at the for funded industry by continually evolving and innovating to meet the changing needs of our tenants and business. So there are several factors that are driving and influencing the direction we are taking. So first and foremost, we are investing in advanced tools and platforms such as high, low virtual property towards a AI driven property insights and online transaction processes. We also realize that with the growing emphasis of decarbonization, especially in New York, with local law 97, we wanted to incorporate retrofit practices to reduce the carbon footprint in all of our properties. So we’ve undertaken mechanical and system upgrades and interior graded building controls within the regulatory standards in New York City. Lastly, we decided that, you know, data is king and we wanted to leverage data and analytics to the best of our ability. So we started analyzing market trends, tenant preferences and other relevant data to make really important decisions and streamline our portfolio. 

DA:  Well, that you’ve literally if I had a checklist of all the things you know you ought to be doing, I think you nailed all of them, which is pretty impressive. And I think you’ll agree that you know, it’s an amazing time to be in our industry. It’s just full of so many opportunities to think differently and do different sort of take different approaches to how we conduct business, how we engage with our customers, our tenants. And, you know, you can either sort of put your head in the sand or you can, you know, lean in and and really take the bull by the horn. And there’s an awful lot of opportunity. And it sounds like you guys are taking advantage of that. And it sounds like as a result, your business is moving forward, whereas others, perhaps their businesses are either holding pat or going backwards. Any thoughts on that? 

RE:  Yeah, I think, you know, we’re well, we’ll go and talk about this and, you know, later on when we’re diving into our podcast, but we feel that there is such a hesitancy to change, especially with legacy owners. Right. And I and it’s time for us to make them feel comfortable and take that that leap and want to move forward and realize that in order for them to advance and be competitive, they need to take on these technological advancements and adopted into their portfolio in order for them to become successful. There’s there’s no ways around it, especially with the you know, with the advancement of AI. It’s really critical. Now to reach that point where you have to say to yourself, okay, we need technology and we need to incorporate it now. 

DA:  Right. Well, listen, I think if you if you’re still noodling around sort of what the mission is of your podcast, you may have just landed on it. The whole notion of really trying to be, you know, a catalyst to the industry to encourage change, to foster change, to facilitate change and for, you know, those that are perhaps sitting back still to recognize, you know, it’s either change or, you know, yeah, I’m not sure what, but it’s not good. So good for you. Nadine If budget and resources were not an issue, what three new initiatives would you undertake to position your current business for success over the next 3 to 5 years? 

NE:  David I love this question so much. Being a solo operation, I don’t do things that often. But that being said, as I said, I have two unique businesses. I have a commercial real estate legal firm, and I have my consulting business. One thing I would love to do on the legal side for my legal clients who typically are tenants and landlords. I would love to have a soft serve serve portal where they can have access to forms, templates, resources and materials that also is designed elegantly. I really come to appreciate over the last few years in my tenure in tech that design UX user experience and UI user interface matter tremendously when it comes to user adoption. So I would love to have an self-service portal where my clients just come in and, you know, help themselves, so to speak, about themselves and empower themselves. I think that that really is a theme that I would love to see more in our industry. Something else that I’d like to do, flipping to the other side of my business, which is my consulting business. I work a lot as it relates to workplace strategy and teaming up with a lot of folks that are focusing a lot on the workplace strategy as it relates to the physical space. And what I mean by that is a lot of folks today are thinking how much space do we actually need to use it? I’m sure you guys are having these conversations a lot, David, and I’m coming in kind of helping with that on the operations side, right? Assisting in how we can design operations and incorporate technology to support that. Right. I would love to, honestly, and this is a big one. I the app that kind of helps to support the discovery and design needs of that. Right. Again, where people can kind of just come in and answer some questions and be able to almost kind of see the design, right. Of how their operations should come to should be kind of come to life. Right. Another one. And again, I think this is being here, I see phenomenal technology that can empower folks. Yeah. Third one, I think I think I’m going to call it media in. Here’s what I mean by that. The built environment, it is critical. It is everywhere. Nobody can escape it. You’re either an occupier or your an owner, whether you’re a tenant or whether you go to work in an office, whatever it may be. But it really no saddens is the right word. But people don’t know enough about it. They don’t understand it. Right. So abstract to so many people. And I actually think it’s so critical that I want to see people understand it more. And so I think the topic is something that should be reported on no differently than the news and honestly in a very accessible kind of format. So, you know, I don’t know, I’d love to see some type of in addition to a podcast, some type of video production, you know, something that is constantly reporting to everybody, not just founders of tech, not just us talking to each other, but the folks that are actually out there so that folks can really have a healthy understanding of commercial real estate and how it operates. 

DA:  It’s interesting because in the absence, you know, they only have those those again, those media proclamations of those extreme positions, you know, which is just really to create news and not necessarily really helpful at times. So and you’re right. I mean, let’s remember that commercial real estate is the largest asset class in the world. It represents such a significant, you know, value contribution, you know, and it’s such an important place where people do spend time. So interesting idea around, you know, how media could be more, I guess, instrumental in in reporting on the importance. Interesting. 

NE:  Yeah, absolutely. 

DA:  All right. Future future conversation. So we’ve just laid some groundwork for some future product development opportunities. And I think we can all agree that building owners and operators are no longer in the space business. Right. Or we’re not just about renting space, but rather we need to create destinations of choice and the list of attributes that will directly impact how we are able to bring people into these buildings continues to increase. And it really boils down to the common denominator is really all about experience. The experience that people are having in buildings. And it’s more akin to, you know, if you look at the cross-section of of of commercial real estate, the industry, you know, it’s really all about hospitality. You know, they understood that industry understood that they needed to earn the loyalty of their customer each and every day. So if customer experience has become such a significant driver of utilization and engagement across all asset classes. Right. I’m just curious how you think that phenomenon is, is either affecting your business today or will into the future? 

RE:  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had this conversation with people, especially in our in our up forum. You know, the way buildings are being used has changed so much. You know, people people really want an experience. And now owners have to focus on providing that experience to be enjoyable. So there is a shift between how people feel about a place and how really important and how much they use it and, you know, no matter what type of building it is, right? So we focus on tenant satisfaction. You know, we know that it’s such a key element in retaining occupants and attracting new ones. So we’ve integrated technology such as, you know, providing efficient security systems and digital platforms to enhance communication and facility management. Right. Also, we’ve created a sense of community within our buildings because we thought, you know, that’s really essential. So we’ve organized events, fostered networking opportunities and really encourage collaboration among tenants. 

DA:  Yeah, well, I think, again, you know, the the skill sets that are required and we’ll talk a little bit about this in our in our later on, you know, that are required to really create these dynamic, exciting, compelling real estate, you know, spaces. The list of acquirers is changing. It’s not just only operational. There are so many other aspects. I think we’re going to see a lot of evolution in that going forward. Let’s take a short commercial break and we’ll be right back. 

COMMERCIAL BREAK

DA:  And now I’d like to welcome back to the show. Nadine and Ryan are the soon to be launched CRE Unplugged podcast. So commercial real estate continues to be impacted by the introduction of new technology that are playing such a significant role in shaping how building operators deliver great customer experience to their tenants. Nadine I’m curious, as the commercial real estate industry stack technology stack continues to develop and provide, you know, operational efficiencies, but at the same time directly impact how people interact with their spaces and places in and around their building. How do you think your new podcast will help the industry to move faster and smarter? 

NE:  Awesome. Well, David, I would say the biggest challenge I see in here when I meet folks in our industry is they struggle to not only keep up with the pace at which technology is transforming our industry, but also truly comprehend and understand and appreciate the benefits and use cases available. So what are already extraordinarily busy days for everybody in the industry? Finding the time to do their own research is incredibly daunting and tedious. So our goal with me and Ryan is to cut through all the noise, to provide relevant information in an accessible and as Ryan had already mentioned before, we even say enjoyable manner. So one of the biggest bottlenecks we see to the adoption technology is specifically in our industry is a fear of change of the status quo. And again, where does fear typically come from for not fully understanding the situation or appreciating the benefits of such adoption? So we’re going to address that fear head on by simplifying and breaking down what stakeholders and users and decision makers should know in order to empower them. Again, this is a theme that really matters to us taking the decisions that are not only in the best interests of their organizations and their employees, but their tenants and occupiers as well. 

DA:  Amazing. Well, I’m very excited about your new program. I’m looking forward to providing assistance in any way that I can help get the word out and to help bring this wonderful conversation to the market. You know, I think you guys are going to be great. I think there’s going to be a lot of value in coming together and engaging with the community and I wish you a lot of success in doing so. Our closing speed round, an opportunity to gain a little bit more insight from each of you, get to know each of you a little bit better. I’ll let you decide who would like to respond to each of the following questions. Looking back, what is the one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you were first starting your career? 

RE:  I would say network with as many people as you can. Real estate, for better or for worse, is a relationship business, and making the right connections can tremendously impact and propel your corporate career. 

DA:  Agree 100%. Do you have a favorite book or podcast. Can’t be CRE Unplugged yet. It’s not. It’s not. It’s like online favorite book or podcast that is positively impacted your approach to work and life. 

RE:  Well, the profit g Pod podcast has really taken such a positive approach to my work life by offering a wealth of knowledge, insights and perspectives and advice from a really successful NYU professor and entrepreneur. Scott Galloway has discussed business strategies, technology insight, strategic thinking and life perspectives, which really has played a pivotal role in shaping my mindset and influencing my day to day activities. I highly recommend taking a look. 

DA:  At the listings first. Thank you for sharing that. Name one way in which technology has improved, how you live or work. 

NE:  I’m going to take that one. So as a solar operator, tools like Canva loom. HubSpot and LinkedIn are phenomenal, and they’ve allowed me to operate and create content honestly, no differently than a large scale organization. They become truly indispensable to me and help me create what I think is a real competitive edge. 

DA:  Right. Amazing. What factors do you consider when deciding where to work on any given day? 

NE:  So I’m going to take that one as well. David and I might be a little controversial in this one. I’ve learned that esthetics matter to me. My environment matters to me tremendously. And so I work in my home office and I curated it for me. There’s artwork, blogs. There’s natural materials, textiles, music. And so that matters to me. I am sorry to any owners and operators out there, but I do not do my best work in a traditional office environment because I find that it staples my creative side, which I find is just critical to assisting my logical side. So if I’m not working in my home office, which is designed specifically for me, you’ll find me in hotel lobbies around Boston or the Boston Public Library, which is one of my favorite buildings in the city, anywhere. That just kind of can give me that esthetic. Right and, and in order. So, yeah. 

DA:  Well, listen, I think what we’re seeing is we’re seeing homes become more work like office, like and we’re seeing offices becoming more home like. And I think that blend, I think, is going to create a lot of opportunity. And there’s no one place to be. And I think you’re going to find yourself, you know, probably traversing between different locations and different different settings, you know, and meet your needs on any given day. So I don’t I don’t think anyone should be offended by that. I think that is where the industry needs to be, you know, where we need to be thinking about as commercial real estate continues to evolve. What skills and I alluded to this earlier do you think will become sought after by building operators in order to remain vibrant and relevant? Relevant. So, you know, not just the you know, the person that knows how to make the mechanical system work, but what other skills do you think we’re going to be looking for? 

RE:  David I really love this question because I think there’s a few skills out there that will be in high demand in 2024 and beyond. Okay. First, yeah, first I would say regulatory compliance knowledge. I think it’s so important to know what’s going on in the local and national regulations. Cybersecurity awareness, you know, as real estate becomes more digitally connected, especially with the advancement of AI. Building operators need to be aware of cybersecurity threats and implement measures to protect sensitive data and smart building systems from potential breaches. And lastly, flexibility operators must be flexible to market conditions and technological advancements. I strongly believe that is essential to be flexible in your approach and the ability to embrace innovation. I’m sure you would agree, David. 

DA:  I totally agree. I listen to another podcast and the gentleman talked about, you know, sort of empowering their people and allowing them, you know, the opportunity, the authority to make decisions and to be flexible and in their thinking as to how they make these decisions. But to the also understand that, you know, mistakes will happen and that’s not the issue, but empowering people to give them the opportunity to think creatively, to think flexibly, you know, to bring new solutions to the table. It’s critical. So I do agree. This last question, I’m going to put you both on the spot. I mean, that’s both of you. If you are not doing what you’re doing right now, what would you be doing instead? 

NE:  As much as I love what I’m doing, yeah, I would probably spend some more time writing, painting, cooking, and taking super long walks with my dog. Leo. And then my evenings would be spent at open mic nights working on my standup comedy routine. 

DA:  Oh. Oh, see that? Come in the last second. You. You dumped that one on us. There’s standup comedy at heart. Wow. 

NE:  I actually took an eight week class intro to standup comedy at Improv Boston just before COVID, and I spend my nights and then COVID hit, and it’s something that I would really like to get back to. 

DA:  All right. Well, I look forward to diving into that deeper. Maybe on another episode or next time we connect. All right. 

RE:  Well, first I want to say need Dean and I should you know, we should start thinking about doing like an off-Broadway show. Ryan Dean unplugged. 

NE:  Yeah, we’re taking it on the road. 

RE:  Okay, I sports is such a huge passion of mine, so I would probably work my way up to become a general manager of a sporting franchise. That would be the ultimate dream for me. 

DA:  Very cool. Very cool. All right. Listen, Ryan, Dean, thank you so much for joining me on the program today. Obviously, Ryan great to reconnect and it’s nice to continue to to build our relationship. Looking forward to supporting you in the launch of your new podcast and just great success in continuing this conversation around technology and commercial real estate and helping our industry to move forward and and just, you know, unleash all the potential that I still believe exists in our industry. So thank you again. Thanks for coming on the show. Great luck going forward with your program. And let’s continue the conversation in the future. 

NE:  You so much, David. 

DA:  Okay. 

RE:  Thank you, David. 

DA:  Take care. I want to thank Nadine and Ryan for joining me on this episode of TEN and for contributing to the global conversation around buildings, being part of a robust ecosystem, helping to build great companies in that they are vital in the effort to cultivate and support great people and teams. The future of the workplace will likely take many forms and we will continue to explore what that looks like together.

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We love hearing from you, so if you enjoyed this episode of TEN, please share, add your rating and review us through your preferred podcast provider. If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on a future episode, please reach out to me directly at david@hiloapp.com. And until our next episode, I wish you all continued success in building community where you work and live. Thank you.