MD: Absolutely. Well, I’ll start in reverse order. The company that I’m with today is Low Tide Properties. We’re a privately owned real estate investment and development firm with 65 properties and around 2 million square feet between Vancouver and Seattle. Okay. Myself and my role, my path to Low Tide, it starts a long way back. I was actually originally interested in architecture. I grew up as a kid as obsessed with architecture and design and the technology around the design. I remember we have a development here called the One Wall Center, and it was at one point the tallest building in the city. I was obsessed with it being constructed. It was a very cool shape, a really cool look to it, but also the tech inside of it was nuts. I remember reading about it’s built in a way that would get hit by the wind, it would potentially sway. I remember reading they put in these harmonic dampeners, they’re called, which is basically two giant tubs of water on the roof of the building that stops, that counteracts that sway. When I was a little kid, that was really exciting. That inspired me to get involved, and I eventually went into applied sciences in university but after exploring and understanding how these things got to put together, what occurred to me is that I actually was more interested in placemaking and how to make these things happen and work influence design, but not necessarily be the one designing it, which led me into development. I spent the beginning of my career for first five or six years in the development world putting together projects, really meeting the opportunity that was there in the marketplace to create places but I’d always been interested in technology, as I mentioned before. You probably recall around 2017, 2018, there was this big influx of venture capital into the prop tech space. I remember watching it closely, mainly out of existential dread. I was worried I was going to be disrupted. We were watching all the funding rounds and the companies, and a company popped up in Vancouver that had just closed a $160 million Series D out of San Francisco. It was called Sonder. They were a tech-enabled hotel company, kind of like Airbnb meets the Marriott, vertically integrated. I said, oh man, I should check these guys out and met with them, built a relationship, and eventually went over there to lead their expansion in Western Canada. That really opened up a whole new world to me, both the US, venture capital, Silicon Valley. It was exciting because I was one foot in that tech world and one foot out into the real estate world, very different places. That sort of led me to where I am today. With Low Tide, I’m focused on both management of portfolios in Vancouver, ensuring revenue growth, and assisting the development team. I’m also particularly involved in the innovation roadmap, both for the company and our future developments. Our biggest one being South Flats in Vancouver, that’s going to be one of the largest creative innovation districts in the country.

DA: We have a lot in common. It was in 2017, 2018, when we really launched Hilo. It was at a time where the notion of cop tech was just being introduced into the marketplace. The disruption of commercial real estate by technology was taking root. Money was starting to flow. Sadly, a couple of years later, after we just built and launched, the pandemic hit. We’ll park that conversation for later.

MD: I left that part out of my story, but yeah, it had an impact for sure.

DA: Yeah. Just before we move on, just tell me, certainly there’s this love of architecture, which I think was a driver. You’ve got also going on with technology in the background, and then you ended up working for that tech real estate company. What contributed to your being successful to go down that path and now lead asset management at a really exciting real estate company?

MD: It’s funny because one of the reasons I joined Low Tide is they have a guiding principle around design, which is make it function really well and then make it beautiful. That’s something I didn’t realize, but that’s something that really drew me in and something I’ve always thought about. How do we create something that doesn’t exist that there’s a need for and make it work really, really well, and then make it really attractive? Make it something where people want to be, whether it’s a building, whether it’s a place or an activation. It’s what’s cool about real estate and design. Most people that talk about why they got into real estate is because it’s visceral. You experience it. You have a feeling from it. When you’re growing up, you remember the places that you were. You remember your houses. You remember your schools. That’s everything from the visual, the smell, the interaction with it. It’s a roundabout way of saying keeping all of those things in mind throughout everything, all the projects that we’ve worked on and done has led me to where we are today.

DA: You’ve picked up on some language that I like to use as well. Obviously, today I’m super interested in how commercial real estate is continuing to evolve. I think that it is completely changed. It’s a new industry in terms of how it’s meeting the needs of people. It’s not just build it and they will come. You’ve got to create what we call helping to make these places destinations of choice, a place where people want to be. That’s where you work, where you live, where you shop, all these different places. I think we can probably agree that the core purpose of office is fundamentally changed. I know you guys have a real unique position around community, which I want to hear more about. I think that’s where I feel that connection with you. My thinking is the winners in this transformation are going to be the ones that merge this notion of experience with workplace design and then also functionality. What are your thoughts, particularly as you contemplate new office projects, but also with a bit of mixed use in mind? What are you thinking about in terms of the industry? How is the business evolving? How are you adapting to this transformation?

MD: It’s a really interesting question. It’s the question that we grapple with constantly. I would probably go roundabout way of answering, but let’s go back in history like we were talking about before, say pre-pandemic 2019. You look at some of the major office hubs. San Francisco was like a 5% office vacancy rate. New York, Toronto were sub-10. Vancouver, the downtown core was sub-3% vacancy rate. There was a high robust demand for office at that time. You flash forward to today, San Francisco is like 30%, New York is 50%, Toronto is around 20%, Vancouver is 10%. Obviously, it’s gone up. There’s been a change in the utilization, obviously, of space. We have to admit that. In my mind, there’s some factors around new supply and that sort of thing as well that we don’t really need to get into, but fundamentally, the needs of the company haven’t changed. It’s the same fundamentals, it’s just a different shape. Productivity and innovation are at the forefront and it always comes down to the people. We can have a whole conversation about AI, maybe that’s a different podcast, but it’s definitely affecting the sphere, but it’s always about the people. How can our space positively affect people and then productivity and innovation that follows on from that? That’s really the first principles thinking that we approach this with. Making sure it’s small ball, it’s getting the little things right first, back to that design concept of making it function and then make it beautiful. Some of those first principles for us is simply we want to create an environment where people want to be. That means it looks good, that means it’s safe, that means it’s seamless, and there’s connectivity between all the different ends of the user journey. Then there’s a high level service. This principle, it’s art, it’s science, and it’s a lot of effort. Going back to the beginning, it’s creating a feeling where you might not notice the details as a user directly, but it feels good when you’re there. You arrive at work and you go up to your office and it just feels good. Getting that, that’s the first principle. I’d say the second piece is what you mentioned before, which is community and collisions. One of low tide’s differentiators and one of the reasons we’re beating the market right now in our occupancy level is simply because we work extremely hard year-round to elevate the fabric of the communities that we’re in and create these collisions. That’s neighborhood-specific, not just asset-specific, but neighborhood-specific. We work really hard in the neighborhoods that we’re in to create those collisions and create that fabric of community. Then the third thing I think is really careful co-tenancy decisions. Ensuring the right amenities are in the space. We have a lot of office assets, but we’re also, we have industrial, we have retail, we have residential. Ensuring the right co-tenancy mix is very, very important to us. Ensuring the assets have the right amenities in the neighborhoods that we’re in. Things like ensuring a robust ground plane where if you’re walking in, you have the services and amenities you need. I would say that’s how we are looking at the reaction to this change in the market.

DA: There’s a lot that you just shared. I think it’s what’s worth noting is, and I like to say that the commercial real estate has gotten more complicated, but not in a bad way. It’s a more thoughtful business than it used to be. Used to be all the work ahead of time to get the building up was where the focus was. Then from an operational perspective, it was just ensuring, it wasn’t that it was easy, but it was air conditioning and heating balances were correct. The lighting systems, air quality control, security, safe. I think you’ve identified all of that, but you’ve identified about 80% more and so there’s an awful lot more that we’re all thinking about. I’m not sure that every building operator is, but I know that low tide is and I think it’s really interesting that as a player in this space that you guys are, there’s so many different touch points that you’re thinking about. How big do you think this platform can grow for you? Is their ambition to go big, big, big, like from a corporate perspective, knowing what you’re onto, which I think is magic. What are your thoughts on that?

MD: It’s an interesting question because that’s, I mean, you’re in the tech world and that’s kind of where our heads always go, where it’s like, okay, how do we scale? And that’s not the mentality of low tide. It’s how do we work to create better neighborhoods and better environments? And I shouldn’t even say better, just continue to support the communities and neighborhoods that we’re in and sometimes that does mean growth in the areas that we’re in. If there’s an opportunity to purchase assets and continue our growth within a community, absolutely. Several years before I started, there was a decision to diversify the portfolio into Seattle with primarily residential and that’s an example of more of a diversification play, but at the same time, an opportunity where we could add value in that market with our approach. Right now, our primary focus is the city of Vancouver and it’s in the South Flats neighborhoods, which for those of you, you’re based in Toronto, so you might not know the neighborhood. It’s just a little bit east of the False Creek area of Vancouver. So it’s like a five minute drive from downtown, right next to our Mount Pleasant neighborhood, which has all the really cool breweries and food and we have some pretty big, fantastic groups that we work with there like EA, Samsung, Mark Anthony group that are in that neighborhood right now and we’re continuing to grow that. We want to see that area come to life over the next five, 10 years.

DA: I love it. I love the commitment to specific neighborhoods and we’ve always liked to say that buildings are not silos. They’re part of the fabric of a neighborhood and a city and I think you’ve really brought that whole spirit of neighborhood and community to life and I think it’s a winning solution. We really believe that buildings need to offer this sort of this one-stop seamless and more personalized experience. We think technology could be a significant contributor to that. We think people are going to want to look to technology to help them feel connected, help to your point earlier about productivity, and then just to help make where people work and live easier and better, like the simple, you know, just add joy to my life. So, you know, we think customer experience and engagement, you know, can really be improved one interaction at a time and so just what your thoughts, want to know what your thoughts are on how building technology, you know, could be doing either more or different, you know, what is it doing right? What could it be doing differently? What isn’t it yet doing at all in terms of helping to bring this best practice around experience to life?

MD: Yeah. Fantastic question and I’m going to answer your question with questions.

DA: Okay!

MD: I mean, we toil over this. You know, we’ve spent a really long time analyzing these decisions and so much so that we’ve created a fairly robust matrix that, you know, to evaluate both design and technology decisions that some of them are, you know, maybe it’s already existing in the portfolio, but we’re advancing them, or maybe it’s frontier, maybe it’s pioneering tech. That doesn’t really include any sort of ERP discussion that’s sort of out of this topic, but really in the building specific stuff. So I would say, you know, we’ve landed on a few guiding principles. One of them is just, again, it’s fundamentals. It’s, does it improve the quality of life and the user experience of our users? But that question is so like, that’s a whole science in itself. Like, how do we track the user experience? We’ve had to create the user experience journeys for each of our assets and then when they’re mixed use assets, it gets more complicated because what are they doing?

DA: There are fundamentals that I would think, you know, will cross, you know, those different asset classes for sure.

MD: Yeah and that’s a hundred percent and that’s kind of where it gets into the second part, which is sort of the two, but like there’s user dependent technology applications. Then there’s a general base building and the services, everybody. So does it improve the user experience quality of life? Does it adapt to changing needs over time? As, as you know, some of the stuff that came out in the prop tech world, you know, is a solution at the time to a problem that maybe, maybe did it exist, maybe not and then, you know, it no longer exists. We need, when we want to make a significant technology decision, we want to make sure that it’s, that it, that it evolves with, with the asset and with, with how, with how the building’s being used. Does it, is it, is it possible to deliver our top tier service, you know, from a cost effective manner? Does it, does it help our team? Is it cost effective? And then there’s of course the element of branding and marketing, which is which, you know, I’ll just call it out. It’s definitely an important piece. We want to keep our buildings full and part of that is, is a marketing tool and, and we use technology as marketing tools to get there. So.

DA: Yep. I’m with you a hundred percent. I think there’s an amazing opportunity for, you know, so our background obviously is marketing communications. So we think in those terms, and I think it’s an advantage that we’re now identifying in how we present our technology solution in that technology is not just technology for technology sakes sake. It’s, it’s, it’s how does it help bring the brand? How does it help bring the strategic positioning of the company to which we’re, we’re using that tech to life and, and in a much more profound way in the eyes of their customer, the consumer, right? The extent that we can further cement that relationship by extending that brand and, and, and creating a connection. I think there’s a lot of advantage.

MD: Yeah, 100% and where does the line, you know, it’s, it’s a gray line. It’s, you know, between usefulness and marketing and I would say we, we have a few solutions that we’re, we’re implementing that I wouldn’t necessarily call them frontier, but they do skirt those lines, you know, things like, you know, operating systems and, and, you know, the, the overarching operating like AI enabled operating systems that include, you know, it allows us to integrate all network architecture in a building and then our operators can essentially fly the building like remotely, like a ship that’s, you know that, that will track everything from, you know, when, when the occupants are coming into the building, it’ll, it’ll control heating and cooling and all that, you know, the decision gets made now and it’s implemented into the building, you know, years later potentially. So it’s, it’s a careful decision that we make, but that, I guess, you know, a decision like that covers both things. One is that, okay, we can talk about how we’re running more efficient buildings but the second thing is there’s a whole life cycle element to that affects the tenants directly. You know, we can potentially bring operating costs down with some of these technology solutions and that gets passed down to the tenant and so those are the types of solutions that are win-win that, that are, we really are looking for.

DA: Right. We’d like to, you know, we, you know, from our perspective, a couple of the guiding principles for us is how do we attract tenants? How do we help you retain tenants? And how do we streamline operations to the point where we’re creating certain efficiencies? So, you know, there’s gotta be some ROI, there’s gotta be some measure of, you know, success so that we can determine that these investments are worth our time, our effort and, you know, some of them are a little softer to measure, but I think, you know, there’s definitely ways in which to look at and monetize the value and the benefit from implementing these kinds of solutions.

MD: Yeah. We have this, we have this concept of, that we use just company-wide when you get, when you first start at Low Tide, you, they, they give you Jim Collins, good to great, and yeah, good material and one of the concepts in there is, is bullets over cannonballs and basically meaning start small, pilot things, see how it goes, pivot.

DA: Yeah.

MD: And, and, and then move on from there before you, before you do a massive implementation and, and I would say that that permeates throughout this organization for sure.

DA: Well, that’s a, that’s a great, great book and a great way to operate, you know, that kind of strategy. So listen, this reinvention of commercial real estate, it’s going to continue. It represents a significant opportunity for our industry. A little bit of a, a sort of a what if question, but if budget and resources were not an issue, if we were able to give you a pot of gold, and say, Matt, you know, what would you want to investigate, research, bring to market, implement, you know, what would you want to take on as a way to position your business for success? You know, sort of looking three to five years into the future. What, what haven’t you been able to do, but if resources and money were unlimited, you could start to think about.

MD: I only get three.

DA: Don’t be greedy.

MD: Okay. Yeah. No, I, I, I love this question. It’s kind of like if you had, you know, personally, if you had unlimited funds, what would you do with your life? And then, and then you say, okay, well now, why aren’t you doing it?

DA: Right.

MD: You know, again, we’ve talked about community. We’ve talked about this concept of creating collisions for us, like from, and for me personally, I would say, you know, put our money where our mouth is behind that. So, you know, one of the things we’re Vancouver specific and, and so we’re very focused on the, the, the business ecosystem of Vancouver and the health of the business ecosystem, particularly in technology and so, you know, I think the three things I would do is really invest in, in, in the innovation ecosystem and you know, one of the things we lack in Vancouver is, is exit opportunities. Some incredible businesses are started here, but they often leave and, and exit elsewhere and by exit, to be clear, I mean, I mean, you know, they’ve funded, they’ve done a series A, series B, series C they either go public or they get purchased and, and, you know, we don’t, for whatever reason, we don’t seem to have those big splashy exits. They seem to go to Silicon Valley or maybe New York. So I would love to dedicate capital to, you know, external funding that, that marries either private partnerships or public partnerships that, that seeds funding or creates those sorts of exits, right. That facilitates that, you know, for, for our South Flats district, it would be fantastic if we could have a public sector partnership where, you know, we could pilot things there. Maybe we could test, you know, I, I, to this day, I can’t tell you what our policy is on autonomous vehicles. I’d love to be able to pilot them there and dedicate funds to companies to come try it and demo it. Things like vertical farming and, and, and that sort of, you know, innovative ag tech, I’d love to demo it there and commit funds to it. So that’s one thing. I would love to build and dedicate an entire space to individual creators and disruptors. That’s completely free of, of any sort of economic imperative or profit motive, just a justification for, for, you know, butts in seats there for, for people that are doing stuff. Maybe we put in lab equipment, like kind of a new lab concept. In Vancouver, we struggle with that kind of thing because the real estate costs are high and so how do you, how do you pilot something like that and dedicate the space? I think that’d be a fantastic long-term use of capital. Hard to underwrite in the short term and then in the third, the third piece is, I think, you know, I would love to found and grow a local institution that’s, that’s focused on, you know, deep tech research or artificial intelligence research or, or region specific tech, such as as I was saying before climate or ag tech, which is you know, we, we have a robust coastline in, in, with, with a ton of biodiversity in Vancouver and British Columbia. This could be an incredible launching point for the rest of the world to do that kind of research. So you know, I would love to see that and that’s the, that’s the goal in South Flats neighborhood is to have all of that going on and of course have the important part of the ecosystem, which is the large, you know, companies that are generating a ton of capital that they reinvest into these things.

DA: Right. Well, I think I have to come up with a rating system to start to report back as I had these interviews, those were pretty good. I think that was a pretty good use of our, our pot of gold capital. Some pretty innovative stuff, some long, some big thinking stuff, some stuff that’s going to have lots of future impact. So I love your whole mindset there. Thanks for sharing that. Let’s take a short commercial break and we’ll be right back.

COMMERCIAL BREAK

DA: And now I’d like to welcome back to the show Matt Dixon, Director of Asset Management at Low Tide. Again, I’m just thrilled that you could be with us today.

MD: Yeah, thanks for having me, David.

DA: My pleasure. Guest after guest on this podcast, they’ve really begun to echo the same theme, that each and every person that enters the building is now our core customer. It used to be just the person that signed the lease and I think that changes the game dramatically because offices are really starting to think like, look like, and act more like perhaps hotels or restaurants, you know, drawing from the hospitality industry and understanding that, you know, it’s a different world and we’ve got to find ways to up the level of hospitality. Now, this phenomenon, as far as I’m concerned, is not just for the Class A building that’s building out amenities and programs and services. I think it is going to begin to transcend asset classes and I think there’s an incredible opportunity for building operators to pull, again, from these other industries and really just, you know, offer an unparalleled customer experience. So I would love to get your reaction to that. I know this is stuff you guys are thinking about and doing. You’re probably further ahead on that curve than most but, you know, when you think about customer experience as being the driver, what kind of parts of, you know, what things are you thinking about that will contribute to that?

MD: Yeah, another great question and it’s funny because, you know, coming from Sonder, which was a hospitality company that had this tech component and a heavy real estate component, you know, we toiled over this as well and it’s interesting, you know, just to sort of ruminate on that for a minute. You know, the whole concept was to move to a digital concierge, remove the people element from it and I’m not sure if that is exactly what people wanted. You have to think about what do people want? Like, do they want, you know, a flashy art project or do they want Wi-Fi in the parkade? Like, what is service? And so I’d answer this a couple of different ways. I mean, you mentioned that there’s use-specific responses to this and there very much is delineation between things like retail, office, industrial type of hospitality service provider. I think, you know, the underpinning of all of it that I’m seeing more than ever right now is a sense of community and we talked about this before. I don’t mean community as a buzzword. What I mean is that, you know, digital has been in the forefront for so long and it’s all consumed in terms of, you know, first it was retail. Now it’s with e-commerce. Now it’s, you know, in the pandemic era, it’s work from home but all of a sudden I’m seeing people come back and say to us, we’re missing a sense of community and connection. Like, where can we do this? There’s a distinct need for connection that we see out there now more than ever and they realize that digital isn’t the answer for everything. They want to be around other like-minded people. You know, there’s interesting stat, while I digress here, there’s interesting stat I read from a CNBC article that said 81% of Gen Z prefer shopping in physical stores but what does shopping actually mean? Are they actually buying things in the store or are they going in and viewing it and then going home and purchasing it? So I would say that the stakes for physical presence are higher now than they were before because they’re competing with the digital element. You know, like if you’re going to shop, people need a reason to leave the couch. So maybe you bring your partner and grab a coffee, make it an afternoon, have lunch, do something active while you’re at it, as opposed to just going and buying a pair of shoes. So a long-winded way of saying that we are competing, physical space is competing with digital in a number of different areas, but there is still this acute sense of need for community and our hospitality focus is really built on that and that fabric and how do we elevate that. So, you know, in residential, I would say one of the best in class is actually Toronto, which is Fitzrovia. Those folks there are doing an incredible job with their amenitization of their assets. It’s like a luxury hotel when you go in there.

DA: I’m watching one of their projects go up right behind where I live in the upper beaches, a massive, massive project. It was originally a storage facility and they’re turning it into a very, very large multifamily project. I can’t wait to see what it looks like and I know that it’s going to be very amenity rich.

MD: Yeah, exactly. So that’s one area getting into the uses is like, you know, they’ve really just taken it. It’s quite literally a hotel concept, a rental building and we’re taking elements of that and applying it again, bullets over cannonballs. We don’t want to go too far into it and, you know, we want to take the best and have that sort of second most principle where we apply where this was really good. Things that are working, which includes just, again, doing the little things really well. So heavy amenitization, top level facilities that rival the gym, like high level gyms, for instance. So in our tower in Seattle, we just renovated the amenity areas to include a gym that quite literally looks like a corner of Equinox and it’s got, you know, virtual workouts and that sort of thing and it’s a fantastic facility and we’ve taken the amenity room and turned it into a complete upscale coworking area with pool tables and that sort of thing. So it’s, again, a third space that you want to hang out. So it’s that amenitization, not a new concept, but doing it well takes commitment. On the retail side, too, you’re talking about this before. You’re seeing all this investment in now experiential real estate groups like Nike and Adidas. They’re creating, they’re taking floor area that they used to use it and calculate like, OK, how much sales per square foot are we doing in this area? And they’re saying, forget it. We’re going to take an entire area and make it into an experience center. Yes. Because we recognize that it’s more about showing the product because people are just going to go back and they’re going to still buy it, but they’re going to buy it on the phone. So how do we make it into an area where people want to be and we could showcase our product? And then, of course, office, which is where you started with all of this. It’s a little different. Obviously, amenitization of the buildings is incredibly important. That means for base building. That means lobbies. That means gyms. That means doing those things really well but it’s also around the co-tenancy and the amenities that those types of retail amenities, food and beverage, gathering places, rooftop patios, utilizing spaces in unique ways. It’s a culmination of all the little things that get people to come back and I would say that’s kind of the underpinning of all of when you have a big mixed use center, you want to bring all of that together. An example of that is our South Flats development, Emily Carr Station, which is a new subway station that’s being built in the South Flats neighborhood and we’re putting two residential towers on. We’ll have 100,000 feet of office. We’ll have a second office tower as a second phase. We’ll have abundant retail, all great ingredients but to bring it together, we’re creating an amazing high-level designed plaza on top of that SkyTrain station. So when you walk out, it’s not just like you’re walking into the commercial space. You’re going to walk into the elevator and go up to the office. There’s a market where you can pick up some snacks on the way up, and you can sit down on a bench and have a conversation with people. You can watch some live music. You can meet someone who lives in the tower above. It’s a culmination of those public areas, creating the collision areas, and bringing it all together with a high sense of design.

DA: Right. Right and you’ve got all those pieces working collaboratively to take that 15-minute city down to even five minutes, the notion of that 15-minute city, you’ve got it all within very small confines. I think you’ve touched on so many different points, but the overarching theme is definitely that the experience needs to start from the moment you come out of the subway exit and navigate your way through all of these different spaces and places. We don’t think technology itself is what creates great experience. It’s an enabler. Ultimately, we want that technology to enable the interaction with physical spaces. We’re not all about creating something that you can then be 100% or entirely remote. We actually want to bring people together. We do believe people want to be together, and there is more to be gained by finding ways in which to support that. It all has to come together, the design, the functionality, the different use cases, the technology. Like I said, it’s an exciting and more complicated business that we’re in.

MD: Yeah. To build on that, that’s something I didn’t mention, but all of this, I guess what’s implicit in this is that the technology is incredibly well integrated. I’ve mentioned the word seamless before, but we want to work with… It has to be woven together, and that’s the opportunity for technology. Right. We envision connective tissue via a digital experience that integrates the entire neighborhood. What that means is it gives you… Again, it’s a seamlessness. It’s a user experience that’s not supposed to be, oh, I have to go onto the app to do X, Y, Z. No, no, no. This adds to the experience and allows me to find where I’m going, know about things. It’s knowledge sharing. It’s inquiry and communications. It’s finding those community elements that you want, that you’re searching for. That’s the opportunity of the tech. All of that’s going to keep… I think it’s an incredibly important part, and it shouldn’t compete with the physical space anymore. It should be woven together.

DA: It should complement and help bring the physical space to life. It’s not five apps and four websites as three portals. Hopefully, it’s one seamless, frictionless system. That’s certainly a mission of ours as well. We all come from different backgrounds, and we have different perspectives on this whole world of office, the future of office. I’ve talked about a bunch of things, but I’m just curious, what else are you thinking about that will have impact on how buildings continue to play a critical role in a much larger workplace ecosystem? I’ll throw some initials from ESG to IoT, from ROI to M&A. What else, exclusive of anything that we’ve already talked about, is top of mind for you?

MD: Yeah. Again, I mentioned this already, so maybe it’s a new thing, but I’ve met more groups in the last six months that are trying to find a space to build community than I ever have in my entire career. That is indicative of something. I think it’s just a post-pandemic world and ecosystem that everybody’s trying to figure out. The question that preoccupies my mind is, how can I create space that would compel me to stick around the office area after work and connect with other people, and creating opportunities to do that without sacrificing the integrity of the area and the building and that sort of thing? In New York, I think right now the craze is members clubs. In Canada, I think it’s groups aligning like-minded individuals just to hang out. We’re seeing that more and more, especially in the tech community, where there’s a founder-led, let’s say, space where they have fireside chats and some beer on tap, and people convene every Thursday. It’s kind of like a member thing, but it’s an exclusive place where people can go and share ideas that are like-minded and aligned on certain things, whether it’s tech, whether it’s design. You’re starting to see the rise of this. To a certain extent, that’s always existed, but now it’s branded and it’s more, I would say, pointed. We’re thinking about that kind of thing a lot. What does that actually mean for how people use space and collaborate? It’s interesting because the way I was thinking, it’s like there doesn’t always need to be a purpose for the collaboration, but there does need to be a place.

DA: There’s an opportunity. You’ve got to create the opportunity, yes.

MD: There’s a purpose, but there does need to be a place. How do we facilitate that? What’s the best way to do it? That’s what’s keeping me preoccupied right now.

DA: That’s good stuff. That’s something we think about too. We’re obviously looking from our technology perspective, how do we create more interactivity, not only between building and occupant, but between people, just the people. I love that idea. We could talk more about that for sure. Our closing speed round, Matt, is an opportunity to get to know you a little bit better. Some very pointed questions. Looking back, what’s one piece of advice you wish that someone had given you when you first started out in your career?

MD: Oh, man. I have a long list of them. You know what? I’ve had some incredible mentors. I’m so lucky. I would say, number one thing is just invest in meaningful relationships and choose what you give meaning to. You’ll meet a ton of people in your career, and some serve you, some don’t, and align with you, and some don’t. Relationships will drive your success no matter what it is. I would say invest deeply in meaningful relationships, definitely, is probably the biggest piece of advice.

DA: I’m with you. Creating that network early. I wish I had that advice earlier. I’ve done it later in my life, but I wish I knew the value and benefit earlier. Is there a favorite book or podcast that has positively impacted your approach to either work or life?

MD: Yeah, 100%. I would split these into two books, Atomic Habits by James Clear, which is pretty popular, and Anything You Want by Derek Sivers. Both had a very profound effect on my career. They both talk about cutting through the noise and getting to the signal. Habit stacking every day. Stack bricks a little bit every day is better than one surge one time. If you consistently stack bricks towards the goal that you’re trying to achieve, you will achieve it.

DA: I love that. That’s great. We’re both technology buffs, nerds, I guess. One way in which technology has improved, again, how either you live or work.

MD: I mean, I have to give the most lame answer, which is AI. I have five or six different custom GPTs that I run through the OpenAI model that just have changed my ability to do. Mainly the speed of which I could work and operate. It’s just getting better and better, obviously. Again, we can have a whole other podcast on this, but more so than any Slack or any integration tool like that. The ability to harness the power of this right now, it just has changed the game.

DA: I’m with you. Commercial real estate is going to continue to evolve. Are there any skills you think that the industry will need going forward that it hasn’t perhaps historically had under its umbrella? Particularly around office, I’m just curious, but in general, what needs, what skills, what type of personality traits, personas are we going to be looking for as the industry evolves?

MD: Well, we just talked about AI. Unfortunately or fortunately, it’s going to replace a lot of the, I call it ground level analysis or entry level type of work that’s out there. Although it’s important to learn that definitely, and I’m talking specifically about finance and maybe documentation, but where, and I would say this before AI too, I think where the best place if you’re in real estate or even in technology that’s focused on the built form, learn about building methods, construction, building materials, and operating details, because it’s really hard to teach it. If you spend time, if you’re interested in the actual real estate field, spend time on construction sites. You don’t need to swing a hammer, but if you learn what things are and where things are, it goes so much further to understanding the numbers behind it and the documentation behind it and how the whole business is put together and like I said, it’s reading about a HVAC system in a book is very different than seeing it operate in real life. So I would say invest in that side of the business.

DA: Get behind the scenes. That’s great advice. Great advice. If you were not doing what you’re doing right now, what would you be doing instead?

MD: Oh man, I’m too high strung to sit around or make art or go to the beach or something. I’d probably be trying to find a company to buy and tinker with it. There’s a lot of retiring founders that are out there of maybe non-sexy businesses or whatever. I’d probably be out there trying to buy something or see how I can create something out of nothing.

DA: Is there an entrepreneurial spirit there somewhere?

MD: A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent and I’m fortunate with Low Tide that it’s obviously entrepreneur founder led. So there’s a lot of… It services that need for sure.

DA: Right. Amazing. Matt, thank you so much for joining me today on the program. Love the conversation. Really appreciated all the insights shared, the advice offered. The overview of your business, your approach to business. Really super excited to continue to learn more about the work that you’re doing and Low Tide and your projects that you’re bringing to market and I hope this is the first of many conversations. So thank you so much for joining me.

MD: Thanks, David. This was super fun.

DA: Good. Awesome. Thanks so much. Take care now.

DA: That’s a wrap on today’s episode of TEN. I want to thank Matt for joining me on the program. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review. It helps others find the show. Thanks for listening and until next time, I wish you all continued success in building community where you work and live.