DA: Hi, I’m David Abrams. And I want to welcome you to this edition of the Tenant Experience Network podcast. I want to welcome today’s guest, Chris Tambakis, CEO of Adgar Canada, a leader in the commercial real estate industry who took time out from his busy schedule to talk with us today. In this episode, we will learn about Chris’s journey to his current position at Adgar with over 1 billion in assets under management. We will tap into his thinking around doing what is right for the customer as one of his keys to success, and the importance of loving what you do. We will get a glimpse into what is top of mind for Chris as he continues to navigate through new challenges and emerging opportunities. We’re excited to be sharing this podcast with you, so make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode of the Tenant Experience Network. So now I’d like to welcome Chris to the show. Hey Chris, glad you could be with us today.

CT: Hi David, thanks for having me. I really appreciate being asked and I look forward to a vibrant conversation.

DA: Awesome, let’s kick it off. So I’d love to understand a little bit more about your journey to your current position at Adgar Canada, maybe share with us how you got started and then just walk us through that process.

CT: So I have about 30 plus years of experience behind me, which on one hand is fantastic. On the other hand, it’s a little frightening how fast those 30 years have gone, but it’s probably a good place to frame it and to start. I graduated from business school and right out of business school, I came into the commercial real estate industry, and I’ve stayed in the industry since then. And that’s because I truly love what I do. I love the industry we’re in. I love the people that I work with each and every day. So that’s why I’m still in the business. And that’s I think the impetus for getting into the business. So I consider myself very lucky that what I started with is something that I continue to love. my career path has taken sort of three different phases with three trunks if you will. The first was right out of university as I said I started and I went right into the brokerage business and I started in the leasing business, and I was working for an amazing guy. He was my mentor at the time. His name is Ted Avison and alongside of Ted was a group of very highly motivated and highly performing people that they really helped set the tone for my path. And a lot of those people by the way, are still friends and colleagues in the industry, and they’re also leaders in the industry. So when I look at that, I really consider myself very lucky to have those people at the very start of my business career. It was a smaller firm, but it was national and it was global in its perspective. So that was a terrific learning. And we also had this philosophy that we treat each property as if it’s your own. And that’s something that was fundamental to me. And one of the reasons why I started my career there. The second phase was about 10 years later. And I was at a point where I was looking for a different experience, a new exposure. There were lots of changes going on in the industry. And I decided to make a move to a larger global brokerage firm, Colliers. And that also coincided with me making a shift from leasing to investment sales. It happened to be also in the middle of the 1990s. And for those that will be listening or seeing this that were around those days, you know what the middle of the ’90s was like. That said, I’m very, very thankful for that time. Really tested my resolve, both the industry and myself. Challenged me in a lot of ways and really made you focus. And if you weren’t focused, I think that’s why a lot of people didn’t make it through the ’90s in our industry, but I was very thankful for it. Again, I worked with some amazing people, learned each and every day. Continue to keep the customer as the primary focus. And again, providing advice, another tenant for my, another focus for me, providing advice to the customer, that was the right advice for them, regardless of the impact to my business. In the service business, that’s not always what people do, but it’s something that I was fundamentally rooted in, and something I’ve stuck with. And then again about 10 years later after that, Adgar was a client of mine, and all of a sudden I had the opportunity to start Adgar in Canada. They had a couple of investments, but no business here. No real business. A few investments. And I had the opportunity to start the company here, And for me that was a culmination of my learnings, my skills, and my desire. So I had, along the way, I’ve helped grow a lot of businesses for a lot of people. And this was an opportunity for me to grow a business the way I thought it should be. You know shape the product, focus, the strategy, the approach, the culture, and the opportunity, and the impact. And for me, this has been, the last 10 years has been an opportunity to bring all those skills and beliefs together, assemble a wonderful team of people, and then implement and execute, which has been great. So that was my path.

DA: Okay, well there’s a couple of things. So first of all, 10 seems to be an important number for you. And interestingly, this is the Tenant Experience Network, which is, and our acronym is TEN. So clearly this was meant to be.

CT: There you go.

DA: And secondly, it sounds like it’s been about 10 years since you’ve been at Adgar. So I’m not sure if you want to publicly announce what’s coming next. If that’s a longterm view with Adgar or who knows, but interesting too.

CT: No I would characterize that as I had my first 10 years at Adgar and now I’m on my second 10 years of Adgar.

DA: Okay perfect.

CT: And so that’s why we look at that. You know it’s funny you said it, because whether by design or naturally, and it hasn’t been exactly 10 years, it was nine and change and 11 or whatever, but it’s been pretty close to around 10 years that I’ve sort of had these, these moments that I’ve wanted to make a change. And it’s not because of a boredom, or because I wasn’t happy where I was. In fact, I haven’t left anywhere. I’ve gone places and I’ve evolved my career that way. And it just so happens that it sort of went in those 10 year chunks. It’s actually a little longer than that, but then that would tell you I’m even older than I really am, but my gray hair does that too, so.

DA: Well you certainly have a moment in time now to help define the next 10.

CT: Oh yeah.

DA: And we’ll talk about that. We’ll talk about that I’m sure. Why do you think you were so uniquely suited to this opportunity? Are there any skills that have helped you to become successful in this role?

CT: Well first things first, I love what I do and I love the industry I’m in. I can’t tell you that that was purposeful. It was hopeful, but it was something that again, I have been very lucky that I landed in an industry. I picked an industry that I’ve truly enjoyed. And by the way, through our industry, you get to see every other industry. You work with the banks, you work with insurance companies, you work with construction, you work with the accounting firms, every type of business. And as a leasing agent, I got to see every industry, every business. And I’m pretty sure that, while I was interested in what other people were doing, and I learned what they were doing, I always came back to the fact that I liked the real estate part of it the best. So that was a good litmus test along the way. But I love what I do and I try and get up every day and deliver that to everything I do. So that’s the first thing. And by the way, not every day is great. Lots of bumps along the way, but again, love the industry and love the people that I work with. Second, and this is probably over the first two phases of my career. I worked with some great people. I was mentored well, I worked with and for a bunch of people, and I had the pleasure and the opportunity of leading some teams. So when you mix those two skills together, they really helped me deliver or develop rather and hone my skills for what the next phase was, which is Adgar. And lastly, I think my upbringing and my beliefs help anchor me in how I deal with the opportunities and challenges that I face each and every day. And those are both human and nonhuman challenges. And that’s been, that’s been the anchor for me in my path. So really loving what I do. Great experiences, both positive and negative along the way, and fortunate to have a background to wrap all around it.

DA: Well I think loving what you do for me stands out the most. I can safely say that in the first part of my career, which lasted over 25 years in the marketing communications world, I could say that every day I did love what I was doing. Again not always easy, but I did love it. And in my new phase of my life and my career. Again, again challenging times, hard times for sure, but each and every, I do love what I do. And I think that’s hugely important. And anybody that doesn’t have that opportunity, or can’t say that, I think it’s unfortunate. And I think we should be, feel blessed that we are in positions where we can actually not only work hard, but also love what we’re doing. Any advice for someone wanting to follow a similar path?

CT: Well I think you just said the key point, which is love what you do.

DA: Right.

CT: So if you don’t love what you do, or you don’t really enjoy it, then fix it. And that means change it so you do love it, or change from it in my mind, because this is a lifetime. And if you’re gonna spend your life doing something that you’re not truly enjoying, I don’t think you’re getting the most out of it that you can. And again it’s two sides. It’s either you changing you’re, pivoting yourself or changing what you do. So that’s the first thing. Second, be honest, work hard, work smart, listen, listen, and listen. I think seizing opportunities is important, but not every opportunity. I find a lot, you know I’ve had lots of opportunities that come across, I’ve come across in my life, but I was thoughtful and purposeful about the ones that I took. And I think that’s, that’s an important thing. Don’t be afraid of them, but be thoughtful and purposeful about them. Treat people the way you want wanna treated. And lastly know yourself and be honest with yourself. That’s what my advice would be.

DA: Great, so listen, we know we’re certainly in unprecedented times. We’re all experiencing different challenges. What would you say is the biggest challenge you’re currently experiencing and how do you think you’ll overcome it?

CT: So clearly we’re talking about COVID-19 right now. I’ve been through lots of crises in my career, both business and personal. We all have crises as outside of our work. This is a little different, this one, for sure. And it runs across all the, every crisis runs across every section of your life, or your business, or your work. And this one’s really not any different in that context. You know running the day to day of your business, working with, and managing your teams. This is all remote. That’s somewhat different than past crises that I’ve been through. Meeting the needs of all the stakeholders, customers first, right. But then there’s a long list, partners, lenders, suppliers, the community in general. we’re all trying to do the right thing. We’re in this together. And most importantly though, for me I’m always rooted in the people whose lives my decisions impact each and every day. So every day I make decisions and somehow, someway, it can impact someone’s life positively or negatively. And I truly truthfully try to put that at the root of every challenge and every opportunity. Really the human impact is what I focus on. And that’s the part that I always consider first, and looking back over my career, that’s what I’ve always done. I’ve always tried to put the human piece to it. Not just the surgical. I can execute surgically when needed, but I always wanna temper it and manage it around the human impact. And sometimes we forget that I think. So for me it’s, I need to listen and be prepared to learn it, and have experience that I bring to the table. That’s how I’ll get through this challenge. I have those experiences. We, you know as do many others, but listening and learning along the way of all the years of my career and now is how we’ll get through this crisis. And we will get through it.

DA: Mm-hmm, great. So if I was to give you an extra, and I’m not sure what dollar amount I should quote, in my notes, I have $100,000, maybe for you that’s a hundred million dollars. But if I gave you a big sum of money right now, how would you spend it and why?

CT: So let’s start with a hundred thousand. Okay. Because that becomes a much easier situation. A much easier answer. A $100,000 that I just had in the budget that I could do something with, I would do one of two things. I would either look with my team and myself, where can we put that into the community? So outside of our day to day business here, where can we put that into the community that would have the greatest impact, whether it would be those that are suffering from COVID, those are the frontline workers, families that are struggling, research to try and get us to a, to a result that gets us through this mess. So whatever that would be, we’d figure it out, and we’d throw that money there to be the greatest possible use. The second option would be to take that same hundred thousand and give it to someone, one of my teams, one of the members of my team, who would make the greatest impact with that hundred thousand dollars.

DA: Right.

CT: Both in or outside of the business. And I think that would be an interesting and fun exercise quite frankly. I might actually take that thought up. If you’re talking about the hundred million dollars. Okay. That’s really getting into strategic and business. And again we probably we’d take some of it as we currently do and spread it through the industry into the community to try and do our part, but I would be investing most of it back into our business. I think we have an amazing business and not just our company itself, but our industry. I’d be putting it back into our business in a thoughtful way across our strategy, so that’s what, for the hundred.

DA: Interesting. I’m listening very carefully to the industry and hearing a lot of very high profile individuals running some of the very large commercial real estate organizations, and they’re all, they’re certainly very bullish. If I was to throw that hundred million dollar number out there for, it might even be a larger number for them, but they’re waiting for those opportunities to invest in. I think your first part of investing in the community is awesome, but I think they’re also looking at, as business people, as opportunities down the road and thinking that commercial real estate is still going to be a sector that is going to produce amazing returns.

CT: Well, listen, returns is all relative. I mean, some people, venture capitalists, if it doesn’t start with a hundred something, they don’t get excited. They don’t, you know, I don’t get up for anything less than a hundred percent. And then the real estate business, our returns can be very modest, but they, and it depends on which sector you’re in, but they can also be very lasting and impactful, and whether it’s the turtle or the hare, you can have a really, really meaningful growth in wealth across real estate, both personally and corporately. So I think where I want to go with this comment, if I could just react to what you’re saying, not every crisis has led to opportunity the way most people think of it. Most people think of real estate opportunity as it was this much, and now it’s this much. Better let’s buy it now or wait until it gets there. That’s not the only opportunity. Sometimes it’s other synergies. Sometimes it’s partnerships. Sometimes it’s an evolution of your business. So it’s not just about buy low, sell high, or buy low and keep forever or whatever. I think there are opportunities that will come around and that’s one of the core opportunities, buy low, sell high or keep high, but it’s not the only thing to spend your money on. And I would argue, not argue, but I would suggest that in 2008, while we had a horrific financial crisis, 2008 and 2009, which destroyed a lot of wealth around the world, here in Canada, we were very, very lucky. We paused, there was a lot of uncertainty. It was a very scary time. I remember thinking, Jesus it’s your money safe in the bank even right? You know take it out and put it in the mattress. But in Canada we just paused. And once everything sort of, we got back to, back to getting back in business, the rest of the world had amazing, amazing buy and sell opportunities. And there was tremendous wealth disruption around the globe, but again, Canada, we were really fortunate. We suffered a little bit, but nowhere near what our friends to the South, and over in Europe, what they experienced.

DA: Right and that may be the case again as we work through this crisis.

CT: Yeah, yeah, and this one’s a little different. Obviously we’re all experiencing it globally, but there are some parallels there, the healthcare system that we have, for instance for one.

DA: You spoke earlier on about some mentors earlier on in your career, and I’m just curious, resources, mentors, colleagues, books, that have helped you on your journey that you’d be able to share with our listeners?

CT: So you know, I’ve, boy books. So I do a lot of reading. I now find myself, it’s harder to actually find the time to read an entire book. I don’t read a lot of novels cause I just don’t have the time for that. But I remember when I was starting my career, listening to people telling me, read “The Seven Habits”, and read this sales book and good is, hold on, “Good to Great”. And those types of books, they were all very good, and they’re all sort of very consumable. And I still periodically pick those up. I’ve got some on my shelf back there, and a stack on the bedside table, but I love reading, consuming information in terms of articles and so on. So “The Economist” for me is a great magazine as a simple thing to read. But when I look back, the things that were the most impactful for me was starting work from a very young age, and I’m talking not after I graduated from university, but when I was in junior high and high school, I was working hard. I was finding any job I could and worked while I was in school and doing all the other things that kids do in school. And so that was excellent. I got an unbelievable start. And by the way, a lot of variety of jobs, which was really good. I had a great education at Ivey. I graduated from Western from the Ivey Business School and I reflect on that all the time. And I’m very thankful for that. So the only school, but for me it was the right fit, and it was a great learning, and great lessons. And the teachers, my professors at the time, some of who I still speak to and see today were terrific mentors for me. And then if, if you really wanna get into, again the reading part, for me it’s data. So I will, I love data and I love the knowledge around that data, and consuming it and trying to understand it, whatever that means. And sometimes that means getting out of my office, going and walking around and physically looking at things and understanding them. I get up early in the morning often, actually I’ll just give you another example. I used to travel a lot for business, not traveling as much now, but I’m a runner. And so I will go to a city and I will run a part of that city, including my city here in Toronto, that I don’t normally run to learn that part of the city. And that goes back to when I started my career at Knowlton Realty. Our chairman at the time said, when you get to a new city, go to the tallest building and look at the whole city from there. I do it the reverse now I put my running shoes on and I run through the city to try and learn it. So that’s for sure. On the people side, I mentioned Ted Avison already, started my career with the folks at Knowlton Realty. It was fantastic. Secondly, I worked with amazing people at Collier’s, countless clients that have been mentors, close friends and confidence, confidants, friends in the industry, classmates, teachers, all of them have and continue to play an impact on my life. And of course my family starting with my mother and my father, but if I had to bundle it all together, it’s been listening to, and spending time with anyone who would give me the time, or who wanted my time. And that’s really been the thing that’s helped most along my journey.

DA: Right, all right, great advice for our listeners for sure. And it sounds like you’ve created quite a, not only not a cocoon, more of a network around you, that has really been helpful in your career.

CT: And I have, I have an amazing group of friends. Some, lots of my friends who have become partners and business colleagues as well, and they have been with me through my whole life. So relationships are, have been key to, to what I do. And by the way, through this COVID time, boy are relationships important. Because as we’re all on Zoom calls, the young people who are coming into their career today, I really feel, feel poorly for them, bad for them, because they’re not, it’s like an electronic thing, you think you have 10,000 friends, because you got that many people following you on Facebook or Instagram or whatever, but they’re not really. And they’re not really colleagues. And it’s hard to develop relationships over these types of networks. You and I know each other David, so we can have this type of conversation, and it transcends the electronics to a personal level. But if you’re just starting your career, and this was the extent of your exposure, I don’t think that’s a great start, and so it’s no different than kids who are trying to learn online today, and yeah some are championing in it and some aren’t, but why are we saying that kids need to get back in the classroom? Because we’re social people and we’re social beings. And that’s what part of work is too.

DA: Totally agree with you. I think this has been an incredible experiment, but I believe it has only been that. To me this is not a permanent way of doing business. And I think relationships that existed prior to COVID are what has helped and what have helped to allow us to sustain and maintain, and in some cases even flourish during this time, but I don’t believe it’s sustainable. And you mentioned young people just starting. My son just started a new job today.

CT: Oh congratulations.

DA: So it’ll be very interesting to see, and of course, he starting remotely.

CT: Yeah.

DA: I’m anxious to speak to him at the end of the day and see what day one looked like in a new job working remotely. Who he met?

CT: I can promise you day one will look very different than the other day one when he’s back in the office with the people that he’s working remotely with.

DA: Absolutely.

CT: Very different and probably very emotional in the sense that they’ll all come together, and go wow, like we we made it through that, and now we’re here together, and let’s champion and move forward. So I hope he has that experience.

DA: Yeah agreed. Can you share any details about anything new that you’re working on that you think our listeners might find interesting whether related to COVID or just in general? Any initiatives, programs, developments?

CT: So putting our business aside, ’cause every day there’s something new going on in the business, whether it’s touchless, whether it’s a government program that we’re having to respond, to react to, navigate around, something going on in the community, et cetera. The thing that I’m spending more time on right now, at least in my thinking, is fact from fiction. We are hearing a million different pieces of data coming at us about, you name the topic, whether it’s airborne for the virus. Does a mask work or not? Is ultraviolet something we should all be doing in our buildings? Do I have, will I stay at home forever? Is it gonna be safe to be on the subway? Will people? Before people were never gonna drive again, ever, and now they’re not gonna take the subway again, because the age of life, cause they don’t want to get on the subway. So lots of things. For me, it’s actually fact or fiction, I’m looking for opportunities where we can find the facts and speak to them a little bit. And recognize that we’re all navigating unknown territory right now, but we need to be thoughtful and mindful about that, and less, less exaggerated about it. So for instance, one of our team members here in the office is on the BOMA committee for the office industry. And I’ve asked her on a number of occasions, occasions as she’s going down the path with other owners and tenant groups and industry experts to pose questions that people, the average person, the average employee, the average employer, the boss, the team leader, the team members are starting to be concerned with. To sort of get rid of the noise. One of them being ultraviolet as an example. And I learned some very interesting things. So I’m actually, if you really wanna think about, I’m looking for fact from fiction right now as we navigate coming back to the office.

DA: That’s a great way to look at it, and helping to, you’re part detective now trying to figure out the information, the inputs that are coming, which side of that table they fall on.

CT: Well the other thing is to just sort of to play with this a little bit, and have a little fun with it. People say they’ll do certain things, and they won’t do certain things. So will they ride on the subway? So this is all about how you ask questions. Will you ride the subway for something you wanna do or you ride on the subway for something that you’re told you have to do? Very different answers, ’cause I can tell you, I walked downtown. There’s a lot of people that are coming out of the subway and they’re not going, they’re not going into their office. They’re walking around going somewhere, and having some time, or they’re making it to the beach somehow. So we have interesting fact and fiction right now.

DA: I’m seeing a whole ongoing episode entitled “Fact or Fiction, Chris Tambakis, stay tuned. So we’ll come back.

CT: Okay.

DA: If you could have one super power, what would it be and why?

CT: Are we talking like superhero superpower?

DA: Absolutely yeah sure.

CT: Okay, all right, well I’m gonna sort of say, first of all aside from being able to cure the pandemic now.

DA: That’s a good one.

CT: That would be my first superpower, if I could just do that, that would be one. If it was a superhero superpower, you got to pick Superman. I mean he’s got it all right? He can do everything. And you know, Iron Man is cool and Spider-Man is neat, but Superman, other than kryptonite, he’s in pretty good space. So that would be the superhero one. But if you really wanna talk about, not to be too corny, a power that we all have, and that I think is super and we should all do it is trying to ease human suffering in any way we can. And I think we all have that power. So each and every day, whether it’s getting up and helping your fellow, your neighbor, or one of your workmates, or classmates, or a friend, someone in need, someone in your neighborhood, or quite frankly someone that may be around the globe. I think we all have that power, and we should use it every day, each and every day to the best of our ability. And quite frankly to the best of our means too.

DA: Right.

CT: I do what I do. I’m not about to leave my day job, and travel half way around the world to try, and solve the world’s problems in parts of the world. But I do try and solve problems here domestically. I try and do problem solving globally as well. in whatever we had to make a contribution. So that’s my superpower.

DA: No, that’s great.

CT: A little corny I know.

DA: If a lot of us did a little bit, it would all go a long way. So I’m with you. So this notion of fact or fiction maybe is the lead into the next question. And maybe that is, you know, will be the answer, but I’m just curious what you’re curious about right now? Anything that’s got you thinking differently in light of the current circumstances, forcing you to reconsider, maybe change some of your beliefs, or your thinking around certain issues as a result of today’s circumstances?

CT: Yes and no. Yes I’m thinking a lot, and no in the context that I also bring something else to the table. So I’ve been, I’ve had seven crises in my career that I’ve been through starting from ’87, ’89, 2000, oh sorry ’90s, 2000, 2008, ’12, ’14, and now here we are with ’20. I believe the world is constantly evolving, and a crisis is like the revolution within evolution, and often accelerating things. So things that we’re seeing happen today, were already gonna be happening. Maybe they would take longer, some improving and obviously the others decelerating and disappearing. But this COVID crisis is different as it’s a health crisis. So it’s different than the other ones that I’ve experienced in my life. And it has been self-imposed we literally locked down the economy and stopped it both locally, domestically, and globally. So it is very different than ones that we’ve had in the past, but I do know one thing, it will end. And when it’s over, we’ll have issues, maybe new ones, but a lot of the same ones that we’ve had coming out of other crises. And I know people through crisis always talk in extremes. No one will ever work in an office building again. No one will ever fly in a plane again. No one will ever travel anywhere again. No one’s going to drink water ever again. I don’t believe in the extremes, and I find in my experience over time, these extremes rarely actually occur. Things evolve from the revolution. They continue to evolve and the extremes become tempered items. So yes there will be things that we have as an outcome of COVID-19, some that will be unfortunate changes to industries, and to people’s lives and then others, which by the way, will make the world a better place. So we’re having a revolution right now as part of an ongoing evolution. So the yes and no that I said. The no is I’m thinking about it in the same context of other ones like they do end, they start, they end, they’re not fun, but we learn from them, and we usually are better for them, despite the pain and suffering, and loss that we go through, both human and otherwise. And the yes is because it’s a little different ’cause we actually, we actually shut down the world. And I don’t know there’s anybody, there’s not many people living today that can actually say they’d been in the world where we’ve actually shut down things. I mean I don’t think there’s anybody around from the Spanish flu. So this is different, and we’ll learn from it. So that would be the yes or the no.

DA: Okay, so last question. Is there anything you wish you had known when you first started out?

CT: Oh boy. Anything I wish I had first known, you mean like when I first started my career?

DA: Absolutely.

CT: Well I’d love to have known that I should buy Alphabet stock and maybe Apple the second time around not the first.

DA: Right.

CT: And maybe a couple of other choice things along the way. I wish I had been a little braver about acquisitions in the ’90s. It was tough times, and I was on the brokerage side, working very hard to save people’s businesses as well as, move things along when it was my responsibility to do that. But I wish I’d been a little, a little bolder at some time, occasionally, but I think the thing I wish, they say, what is, what do they say about the young, that youth is wasted on the young?

DA: Right.

CT: I wish I had known how fast time would go.

DA: Right.

CT: And we started with my career and your first question was my career, and it’s been a better part of a little over 30 years, and but I hope I have another 30 years ahead of me. But it goes so quickly. And the experience that you get along the way is not to be under estimated for anybody. So I try to learn from everything along the way. I’m sure I haven’t been perfect by any stretch, but just learning and having experience, that’s irreplaceable.

DA: It would be interesting if we, continue to get older and at some point in time, not when we’re too old, but at some point we started to get younger, and could live those years, those younger years with the experience of having been older. That just came to my mind as you were speaking

CT: My father was, my father is not with us anymore. He’s passed away, but he at the age of 50, said he will, you know next year I’ll be 49, I’ll be 48, and 46.

DA: I think that’s perfect.

CT: So he had that attitude in his life.

DA: Yeah.

CT: To try and be, to wind the clock backwards. And I, I think time goes very quickly and so it should not be wasted, and we probably all waste too much of it. That’d be the one thing. That said, I have no regrets. I’m very happy with my choices and the things I’ve done, and the way I’ve managed my career.

DA: Well I wish you lots of continued success. This was not a waste of time. This was a great use of my time. I enjoyed spending it with you. We have known each other for a number of years, but it was great getting to know you even further as a result of this discussion and I look forward to spending time together on the other side of this crisis, and working together in the industry that we both love. So thanks very much for your time. I really do appreciate it.

CT: Well, thanks for having me today. Really, really enjoyed the conversation, loved the discussion, and I wish you health and happiness and safety, and I hope your son had a great first day today, and I look forward to celebrating and raising a glass with you and him on his real first day.

DA: I’ll keep you posted for sure. Thanks so much, Chris

CT: Take care, be well.

DA: Okay bye now. I want to thank Chris Tambakis for joining us on today’s podcast and for sharing his journey from early beginnings at Colliers to now leading the team at Adgar Canada. Great learning for all of our listeners, and an opportunity to gain insights into what it takes to be an effective leader. Please be sure to tune in again for future discussions, with leading professionals and industry experts who all have something to say about experience in the build world and the impact that technology is having on the largest asset class in the world, commercial real estate. If you or someone you know, would like to be a guest on a future episode, please reach out to me directly david@hiloapp.com. And until our next episode, I wish you all continued success in building community where you work or live. Thank you.