GC: Sure. So I’ve been working in this industry my entire life. Through college, I worked at a residential, full-stack owner and developer in New York City and then in 2011, I started at Bisnow Media. There, I was originally in charge of expansion for events and then sort of grew on a few years later to run and create their digital brand. And I think my wife always refers to that as my MBA in real estate, specifically on the event side, because I think the best data and information you get is from those pre-event calls where all the owners are all there talking about their most honest feedback and look at the market and how things are going, and then sort of expanded from there to lead Bisnow’s digital innovation team as well as internal agency and then after we had sold that business, moved on to Disrupt CRE, where I spent all my time with real estate technology companies, better understanding their market, real estate owners, understanding what their expectations and needs were, as well as real estate VCs in terms of what they’re looking for around prop tech. And that’s where I originally met the team here and I’ve been at Nantum for just over five years now.

DA: Amazing. Well, I actually think through those multiple lenses that you just described, I think this should make for a really interesting conversation just from the different perspectives you’ve had. Maybe just from your, also just wondering, what do you think made you so uniquely suited to this opportunity? Given the background, given your jump into real estate, then on the event side, and now landing at Nantum, what’s made you successful?

GC: Sure. So I saw on previous podcasts here, on the previous episodes, it’s the sort of mentioning of different books and documentaries and I had a few. I think there’s this great book that I recommend that came out about a year or two ago by Marcus Collins called For the Culture. But a big part of that is understanding what tribes are. And that is something that I get exposed to earlier on at Bisnow. So at Bisnow, as we look to develop new products, specifically in the real estate market, we wanted to better understand who our tribe was in terms of who we were selling to. And in that case, it was real estate marketers, whether it be sort of on the leasing side of owners or on the technology side or on the construction side and so on. But it was more specifically real estate marketers who believed data was important and paramount to basically their careers as well as the success of their business and what was different back in the early 2010s and 2000s was everything was print. And what we looked at or what I spent a ton of time doing was understanding meeting with different real estate CMOs and marketers and also borrowing from other industries within the B2C space to better understand what are the types of data that could be collected and shared with marketers, like leads that’s clicking on ads, like native advertising that was just coming out then, like other forms of sort of digital curation, such as the morning brief newsletter there. What are the different platforms of which we could build in order to share back data, to give data to the marketers in terms of leads, to basically grow and share with their sales team and redefine what marketing within real estate meant. But it all started off with this idea of what is a tribe and for Bisnow, at least then, it was those who believe real estate marketing data would forever change their industry. At Disrupt CRE, it was very much focused around the companies, the people and the technologies that are forever changing real estate as well. The big initiative I took there as her COO was more focused around building the TED Talks of real estate. Let’s put on stage the companies that are transforming this industry forever. Let’s give them a platform to do so, to meet new owners, as well as meet new venture capitalists who are interested in potentially investing. And let’s basically put in the forefront of those different types of companies, as well as the people leading those teams and then most recently here at Ansem AI, we’re focused on, in terms of defining our tribe, it’s those who believe real estate data will forever change real estate overall, specifically around sustainability, as well as tenant comfort and impact overall for ESG and other related items.

DA: I love it. Interesting parallel, obviously, as we were developing Hilo and looking to bring it to market, obviously recognizing that the world previous to being very dependent on technology, the opportunity to connect with people through technology was also very print-based. And that’s really how we deliver great tenant experience. It was a lot of print and recognizing that the world was changing ESG initiatives and going more green and going for LEED certification. We saw technology just as the obvious new channel of the way to connect and communicate with people.

GC: Yeah, I think it’s funny when I look back at it, or talk to the people that I used to work with at Bisnow, we think about all of the different, at that time, marketers who we pitched these digital products, who basically told us, no, everything’s print. And then we think to those who took a chance, right? And then basically we’re able to say, I think data’s the way to go and looking at where those people sit today in terms of how their career took off, I think it’s just an interesting parallel that we often talk about when I do meet up with the friends and former coworkers I used to have.

DA: Totally get it. Listen, from concept to actual product, that’s probably a four to five year gap. That’s how long it took for us to, while we were talking with those in the industry, that’s how long it took really to get someone to put their hand up and say, yep, I think you’ve got something there.

GC: Yeah, no, I think innovation, which is something I also read a lot about, I think it’s sometimes really fast and sometimes really, really, really slow. The best example of being really slow is people didn’t trust elevators for a really long time, multiple decades.

DA: Wow, okay. I’m really glad that we could get together today and have this conversation. And in terms of context, I started this podcast in the summer of 2020 in the heat of lockdowns and as a way to just to connect and communicate with people and really just a good need to tell the story of how commercial real estate and technology would respond and evolve coming through a very challenging period of time. We like to think that this whole conversation around the future of work and where people work is really at a turning point. We should talk about less about where we work and just talk about more about doing great work. And certainly that’s what we’re very enthusiastic about and see the opportunity for commercial real estate to still be a very important part of that much larger workplace ecosystem. So we’d love to get your perspective and for you to share with our listeners how your business is continuing to evolve to meet the needs of customers today and what the face of the customer, who that customer really is today versus yesterday and how your business is evolving to meet these new demands.

GC: Certainly. So our business and our company, Nantum AI, is focused on smart building algorithms and automation. We automate buildings to use the least amount of energy possible in order to provide the maximum amount of indoor comfort for tenants and I think we’ve seen this business transition over the last few years, I think starting off in 2020. I think in 2020, during COVID, you saw the rise in need of indoor air quality sensors across buildings and those networks to get a better sense of whether or not the air was safe. Transitioning to 2021, 2022, you saw the big rise of occupancy sensors, counting people within spaces, monitoring return to work, getting a better sense and sort of holistic data approach to what floors are occupied, which tenants are coming back to the office, who do we need to talk to, whether it be on the leasing side from real estate team or in a corporate occupier side and then today, what’s been interesting is we’ve seen sort of the return of the sustainability sort of movement. I think it starts off with the tenant side and really the consumer, right? The consumer is interested in sustainability overall. I think we’re seeing that overall, but then you have these other sort of really large drivers within the real estate market. You have regulations. So you have Local Law 97 in New York City, which fines real estate owners for going over their carbon emission threshold. You have similar laws in Boston, Washington DC, St. Louis, Denver, Seattle, and then other types of laws looking to be passed over the next few years. You also have, from the tenant perspective, the SEC regulations that were rolled out earlier this year in terms of ESG and sustainability reporting. You have buildings themselves. I think that most of which need to upgrade their systems over time. The typical building management system or HVAC system was never meant to connect to the cloud or do things like automation or reduce energy use. So there’s work to be done there in terms of the hardware side. You also have, what we’ve seen is this transition with teams. So across pretty much the board, the chief engineer of most buildings, those who are in charge of basically managing comfort as well as operations within buildings, specifically on the commercial office side, we’re seeing a large percentage of those retire over the next, basically last two and upcoming five years, which has pushed this entirely new generation of chief engineers basically up the ladder who are more interested in testing and trying new technologies. And it’s been an interesting shift overall. But just zooming out and looking at technology, the advancements in IoT devices that have come out, they’re faster, they’re easier to connect, they’re smaller for everything from wireless battery-powered occupancy people counters within the workplace to scrabble-sized water leak detection sensors and then also I think what everyone’s been well aware of is just what’s been going on with an AI. I think most people have either heard of or tried some version of chat GPT or Gemini. But the point of all of that is basically the leaps and bounds that have been made with generative computing has allowed us to basically have a new outlook within the space and our focus, as we’ve rebranded to Nantum AI, we are formally called Prescriptive Data. And then Nantum OS has been our product and platform. Nantum AI and our platform is really focused on algorithm generation and that’s our focus. How do we use the latest technologies and data to write more and better algorithms that save real estate tenants and owners more money, save energy, as well as just provide a better indoor experience overall?

DA: Amazing, quite a journey. And in terms of the evolution of the product as well, and the whole business approach, you mentioned commercial office space, and obviously that’s sort of the arena that we play in. I guess you guys spent a lot of time there as well. Just any thoughts in terms of your clients, in terms of how your product is being utilized with regard to the changing requirements in and around utilization in space. What are you seeing, any observations around the purpose of space or the way in which clients are looking at space and just any intel that you can provide?

GC: Yeah, I think when I first started in real estate, one of the best lessons I ever got was, I remember really when I started at Bisnow, I wasn’t as excited as going to a media real estate company. And what I was told by the founder, Mark Bisnow, was that basically real estate generates all of the revenue for the local economies. That’s the role and purpose of space overall, right? It’s the most important asset class in the world is because it runs every local economy. And that sort of changed my outlook probably for the rest of my life. And this is now probably 15 years ago or so, but that’s how I sort of approached space utilization, space experience, which is what’s the role, what’s the goal? If you’re looking at office space, what you’re really looking at in terms of experience is how do you make a really, really productive space? How do you create a place where people want to go, where they can go, where they feel comfortable going? But then as a sort of newish dad, my daughter’s about to turn two in the next few months, there are other things I’ve been learning, which is a lot of my office planning, I’m coming to the office, I’m in the office today, and most of our team is in the office today, is centered around her. We just dropped her off from school starting yesterday. So now I’m relearning basically what is my calendar? When do I get to work? What is my timeframes and pickup and things like that? So I do think the family consideration, especially after COVID when so many had to spend a lot of time with their family and basically rethink life has become a really important piece to how do you integrate that? And it could be everything just from office hours to the experience once you’re there to beyond just the amenities, the access to food, is it a collaborative space and those are the things that we look at and work with partners around in terms of how are we collecting this data? For us, it’s mostly about the sustainability and the energy side. How do we work with tenant engagement platforms and other platforms to basically create amazing indoor air quality that’s very, very sustainable and that’s our big focus. But those are my sort of bigger thoughts, specifically this morning even in terms of return to our work in the office.

DA: Well, you touched on a few points. I think the latter point was all around flexibility. I think there’s a greater level of permission to sort of be more flexible in how we approach our work, whether it be at home or in person and you’re right. A lot of that is driven by the nature of family and what that looks like. And that looks different for so many different people, right? It’s not cookie cutter anymore. So I think that’s a wonderful outcome and a better place to be for all of us. You touched on the whole notion of experience and we like to say places, destinations of choice. How do we make it such that people want to be there and these places are drawing people in? We certainly don’t believe in mandates and I think we’re aligned there. So, you know, it’s a brave new world on that front.

GC: Oh, definitely. And I think as I’ve been thinking about this more specifically on the family side, it’s looking outside of office on the residential side as well. Family, do you have enough room in your house to have an office at home, right? How do you deal with family and pickup? Even on the retail side, are you designing retail that attracts people with families and without family? Are you designing experiences to bring them there? So I think my biggest, I guess, lesson or thinking around real estate, real estate experience as a whole, office and then outside of office and even into mixed use is really about how are you designing experiences for the greatest different types of groups and how are you working on bringing them there on a consistent basis?

DA: Yep. And how do you meet all the varied needs, right? The needs are not, it’s not a cookie cutter. It’s not one and the same. And there are a lot of unique factors that come into play. and I think, you know, we’ve done a lot of thinking obviously about the same issue and I think where we’re landing is as we consider all these opportunities and all these different asset classes and all these different use cases is the whole notion of hospitality. And if we can create a thread of hospitality, you know, no matter where we are, I think that’s, you know, the way in which we can maybe understand and appreciate and then respond to all the needs of all of our different users, our customers, right? And I think the notion of hospitality becomes a universally, you know, desired, you know, expression of how we can meet people’s needs.

GC: Yeah, no, completely agreed. And before I was the CEO at Nantum, I was head of marketing strategy and partnerships. And at least on the marketing side, kind of going back to this idea of tribe, we spent a lot of time focusing on that and then basically when asked the question, what is a brand? And that’s what always brings me back to the hospitality side, which is your brand within hospitality is something which people relate to. It’s that common value and that common theme and why they come back and I think you’re seeing that really in the office space as well, especially with the new developments, creating that brand and that theme that create a seamless, amazing experience that people want to return to over time.

DA: Yep, the notion of brand has never been more important in commercial real estate. And I think a lot of building operators now understand that there is an opportunity to create brand. I think 10 years ago, they thought certainly there was a corporate brand at the highest level, but I didn’t think they saw an opportunity to take it down to the property level and I think that’s changing today.

GC: No, agreed. And I think tenant engagement apps are a big part of that, but it kind of goes into now the whole full stack experience where that’s just one piece of it. How do you enter the building? How do you add guests? How do you get deliveries? How do you get food? What is your experience holistically? And what is the ecosystem around the office itself?

DA: A hundred percent. We’ll talk more about that full tech stack. But before we do, here’s an opportunity. I just want to tap into sort of your visionary skills and your opportunity to dream. If budget and resources were not an issue, if I was the financier of the company, I came to you with a blank check and said, you got three opportunities to create something, build something brand new to better position your business for success over the next three to five years without giving away any trade secrets. Any thoughts on what you’d do?

GC: Sure. So as I was sort of thinking through this question as I received it before, there are three main areas which we pay a lot of attention to within specifically our space. And I think the first one overall as a prop tech industry is the reliance on API data. We’re all reliant on weather data. In order to inform our predictions and what to do with buildings, we’re all reliant on specifically grid data. So how’s energy being transformed at the grid? So if you have battery storage, for example, when to turn it on and turn it off, we’re all relying on real-time utility rates and certain other APIs. So focusing more on the API side, and I think that’s the foundational layers towards building automation, which is the data in which that’s localized and which buildings need to make decisions around. It’s one thing to make a decision on the BMS that needs to be based off of what’s actually happening within that local geography. I think the second, if we’re just talking crazy ideas, would be to give away IoT sensors for free. IoT sensors, right? Being able to understand indoor air quality, but also detect leaks in different places where leaks are most apparent to better understanding what’s happening with your energy or with just your water consumption or your water consumption per occupant. Other types of data are so important in informing things like automation. Being able to pull out that data, being able to share that data with everyone so they can see it, it allows for the market to move faster in terms of automation. I think the last big theme is just around what’s happening within capital markets in terms of building upgrades and sort of financing. I think that’s super interesting to us and our teams and some of the partners that we’ve made this year, but helping building owners finance some of the large capital upgrades they need to start upgrading their buildings to be more sustainable and have sort of a more longevity in future. But those are three big themes that I think overall are the API data and how we collect it and how we share it and eventually how is AI going to use that. Secondarily, the idea of more data and more sensors that’s just cost prohibitive a lot of the times now and then lastly, just helping people upgrade in a more cost-effective way.

DA: Right, awesome. Well, thanks very much for sharing those insights. We’ve touched on the whole notion of creating places as destinations of choice. I think we both agree that commercial real estate operators are no longer just in the space business. They’re ultimately having to create and are very focused on creating experiences and that experience just crosses so many different aspects of the operation and delivery of service within a building. So we’re seeing experience really roll out and customer experience continue to be a significant driver of utilization, of engagement. We think this is a real phenomenon that is impacting all asset classes, not only office. Just curious as to how that impacts your specific business.

GC: Sure. So specifically talking about utilization, we have a bunch of just interesting case studies of how people have used that data. The best example I could give is a very large financial institution was using a mixture of occupancy and utilization data and then carbon emission data to get a better sense of what was the carbon footprint per employee who came to their space and what did that look like during COVID-19 versus sort of other years? But this idea of breaking down the silos and correlating different data sets against each other, another sort of outside of specifically space utilization, but another example is occupancy and water data, specifically at markets like Phoenix, Arizona, where there are occasionally very large water problems, understanding water per occupant is another really good example of combining space utilization data with water. I think the overall point being the future of space utilization, and I think most owners understand it today and as well as most tenants and corporate occupiers as well, is what do you do with it next and what are the other data sets you have that make that data even more useful? I think the traditional use cases of, oh, should we downsize our office space or move on? I think everyone’s aware of that. Or do we need more office space because more people are coming to the office or analyzing our people per square foot? I think the benefits really come in once you start breaking down those silos and bringing other data sets that you wouldn’t have thought of and then using that against space utilization data. I think that’s been some of the most interesting work we’ve done here, and we publish a ton of academic research with a number of the national energy laboratories and building science laboratories as well.

DA: I think historically buildings, commercial real estate as an industry, was not great at accumulating and aggregating data. There were so many disparate systems, many of them manual. So certainly technology should be facilitating the coming together of all the different data sources and we look at our platform as just one sort of spoke in that wheel where that data can flow up and being more of a customer-facing solution, we think there’s an incredible opportunity to sort of tap into the thinking, the actual engagement, the activity at the customer level. So I would imagine you’re looking at data from many, many different sources as well.

GC: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of places where you can get data from. I think there’s the operational technology stack, and then there’s the tenant, employee, consumer tech stack as well. And then I think it’s easy to collect the data. The question that we always get asked is sort of what next, right? I think there’s two types of, we mostly work with real estate owners. There’s two types of owners, those who don’t have the data and are trying to figure out a way to get it and then those that do have the data, and that’s a much smaller subset and now we’re saying, what now? What’s next and I think the answer to that really lies in the ability to make recommendations in real time for supporting your space and understanding what’s happening in real time, as well as just the predictive nature of what data can do. We’re able to predict the time occupants will arrive at your building in order to generate a HVAC startup system recommendation. But being able to predict when are people going to be there? When are they going to go to lunch so we can ramp down systems? When are they going to return back from lunch? When are they going to leave early? Are people coming to work on Friday? The answer is no. But those types of insights that real estate owners need to understand and know.

DA: Right, and they all connect ultimately to experience and how you deliver, how you connect, how you engage, and how you respond to the changing and emerging needs of your customers. So it all makes sense. Gary, let’s take a short commercial break and we’ll be right back.

GC: Sounds good.

COMMERCIAL BREAK

DA: And now I’d like to welcome back to the show, Gary Chance, CEO of Nantum AI. So glad you’re with us today and really enjoying our conversation. Likewise.

GC: Thanks again for having me.

DA: Of course. Commercial real estate continues to be impacted by the introduction of new technology. We’re both in the technology side of this business. It’s playing such a huge role in shaping how building operators not only deliver great customer experience, but on how their buildings are operated. So any thoughts from you? We talked a little bit about the technology stack, but what are you seeing in terms of how that tech stack is evolving to continue to meet the needs and also help building operators better interact with their spaces and ultimately provide better service to their customer?

GC: Sure. So relating back to your earlier comment around sort of 2020, right? And I think the aftermath of 2020 and COVID-19, as people did start to trickle back in, at least to the office space, which you saw at least from the real estate owner side and in terms of the big trends was the rise of the innovation team, right? Multiple members of real estate companies who are basically there to start evaluating different technologies. I think fast forward to today in 2024, what’s been most interesting is the rise of internal data science teams within real estate ownership. That is something that where we as a company and firm that was out of route in management, a owner of both office as well as residential in New York City. We come from real estate ownership, that’s where we were born. We realized a long time ago that data science is really key if you’re going to do anything in terms of automating buildings. And to see that same outlook now sort of take grasp within mostly the large owners across the United States and Canada, where we mostly focus, has been super interesting to see sort of that rise of the data science team, as well as the challenges that they’re trying to solve, such as the data aggregation and better understanding of everything from risk analysis and climate risk analysis to tenant experience to sort of a holy grail tech, which I would say is predicting whether or not a tenant’s going to leave a space, to better understanding what’s happening with their energy and their environment overall but I think the biggest trend or change I’ve seen in 2024 is that rise of real estate owners hiring data science teams to go through their data and try to find new interesting outcomes.

DA: Right. You’ve touched on one of my closing speed round questions, which was, you know, as commercial real estate continues to evolve, I love to ask other professionals, you know, what skills they think the industry is going to need going forward that perhaps, you know, we’re not part of the typical, you know, asset management, property management, you know, suite of positions and or expertise. You’ve just raised a critically important one, the whole notion around data science. I’m just curious, while we’re on that subject, do you see any other roles, responsibilities that, you know, going forward, one to three years or five years are going to now be part of that compliment of responsibilities of roles versus what was?

GC: Sure. I think data science is important. The other piece to it is also the creativity side and I think that’s where you’re going to find the most opportunity in terms of what’s next for commercial real estate. Once you have the data, what are the outcomes you’re looking for and how do you solve for creative solutions that at the end of the day are creating a better experience or improving your net operating income? I think the other outlook, which is interesting is just chief engineers overall. I think a new generation of chief engineers is taking hold and it’s a new career with new technologies that are around. And I’m excited to see what that industry looks like. There are a number of different organizations like NYSERDA, the New York State Energy Research Development Authority here in New York City, who have focused on new chief engineer training and platforms and technologies to help us sort of a new generation take hold. But I’m interested to see what happens within that space as well. And I think there’s a ton of companies out there as someone who just follows prop tech companies overall, whether it be in the augmented reality version or digital twin version of buildings and being able to do real time fault detection and things like that and seeing the building in real time. I’m curious and closely following what that industry looks like as a whole in terms of just chief engineers.

DA: Yeah, no, interesting part of our business and certainly one that is where there’s more opportunity for disruption. And I guess you’re right with the change of change of guard or the new guard, it creates that opportunity, right? Different skill sets coming into it, let alone having to be learned along the way. Let’s just back up a little bit and touch on some of my others closing speed round questions, a way to get to know you a little bit better on a personal level. Looking back, what was the one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you were first starting out in your career?

GC: Sure. So this was definitely a tough question for me. And I think I kind of want to rephrase it a little bit just to say what was the best piece of advice I was ever given. I think the best piece of advice I was ever given was by the former CEO of Bisnow Media who passed away two years ago. But it was basically he pushed us all to meet three to five new people, whether it be in our industry or outside a week. And the idea of that was to just go grab coffee. We called it 8 a.m. coffee meetings. And it was to push yourself to meet people either doing similar jobs and reach out over LinkedIn or just reach out cold via email, but understand and learn from as many people as possible and make that part of sort of your structure, the way you live your life, no matter where you’re working and what you’re doing. And I think there are a few others who I’ve seen sort of do that and take that sort of just prowess in terms of just engaging and making sure that you are spending your time wisely. But yeah, I think that piece of advice definitely drastically changed my life and just pushed me to meet more people and better understand a bunch of industries and which informed the work I’ve been doing a million times over. So that specific piece of advice has been incredibly helpful.

DA: Yeah. I’ll echo that just from through the words of a previous guest. His advice was, you know, you should never have lunch alone. That if you’re having lunch, it should always be with one, two or three other people. And perhaps, you know, some of which some of whom you’ve never met and what better opportunity to build out that network. So I think you’re definitely aligned with that approach.

GC: No, 100 percent. And whether whenever it is, it’s just yourself to just reach out to someone with a similar job, a job above you, whatever it might be, but push yourself and the things you learn in the community you build is well worth whatever initial challenges and hurdles you might think there might be in terms of doing a call to outreach.

DA: Agree. Great advice. Is there a favorite book or podcast that’s positively impacted the way you work or live?

GC: There are so many, but I made it short. I kept it to three. My first, I would say, is a book called The Singularity is Near by Ray Kurzweil. I don’t know if people are familiar with Ray Kurzweil. He’s a foremost inventor as well as forecaster and predictor. I believe he now leads Google’s sort of AI team around rebuilding the human brain. But he came out with a new book called The Singularity is Nearer. My point or why I like that book, though it may be incredibly dense, is it breaks down how you kind of predict what’s going to happen within future industries in a pretty convincing way. And his main tool, I would say, is tracking the exponential growth of different technologies. That’s how he’s been able to predict everything from the year when a computer would beat someone in chess to the fall of the Soviet Union and so on and so forth. But that’s sort of my first recommendation. My second is the documentary AlphaGo. If you haven’t seen it, it’s about Google’s DeepMind beating the world’s best Go player. Fantastic film. It’s free on YouTube, on DeepMind’s YouTube page, I believe. But a fantastic, fantastic film around AI and sort of its implications that was made in 2016. And the last is the book I mentioned earlier for the culture. I think that is the best introduction to the world of behavior science and decision science, why people make the decisions that they do and it’s something that I’ve pushed at least my marketing team to be very well prepared on in terms of how is behavioral science part of our role.

DA: Well, three goodies. Thanks for sharing. I really appreciate that. Name one way in which technology has improved how you live or work.

GC: Sure. Generative AI. The research that would take me six hours to do now takes me around 30 minutes, maybe 45 if I then go fact check the generative AI, looking for hallucinations and things like that. But I think generative AI has opened probably most people’s eyes and mind to what the next five, 10 years look like. I think that’s been a big, big game changer, at least my personal life as well as here at the company.

DA: Yeah. And I think it’ll continue to be so for you and for many others as we move forward. If you are not doing what you’re doing right now and or in the commercial real estate industry right now, what would you be doing instead?

GC: Sure. So this was super tough. I feel like my work in the media space and then the real estate technology space and then the marketing space has sort of landed me where I am. And it’s this weird connection of different things that I’ve done that have put me sort of here in sort of the right space at the right time. But I think I would most likely be working at another real estate media or technology company to be perfectly honest. I think that’s where I’ve spent the last two decades of my life.

DA: So you’ve landed at the place you were meant to be and it’s not like there’s something else parked. If only I would have done that. 

GC: I think, yeah.

DA: Which is great, right? I mean, that’s a great place to be. No regrets.

GC: I thought long and hard about that question specifically. That was the one that threw me the most to be perfectly honest.

DA: All right. Well, I love it. Good for you. Listen, Gary, it’s been an absolute pleasure to connect today. Really appreciate all of your insights, really appreciate the opportunity to get to know one another. Next time I’m in New York, I hope that CEO to CEO, we can hook up and meet for a coffee or a drink and continue to talk about the prop tech and real estate space and perhaps find opportunities to collaborate.

GC: No, absolutely. We’d love to. Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast and yeah, can’t wait to hopefully do another one later down the road.

DA: Great. Thanks so much for joining me today. 

GC: Of course. 

DA: Take care. Bye now. 

That’s a wrap on today’s episode of TEN. I want to thank Gary for joining me on the program. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review. It helps others find the show. Thanks for listening. And until next time, I wish you all continued success in building community where you work and live.