DA: Yeah, no, I appreciate that and we’ll see if the roles get reversed at all during the point where all of a sudden I’m the guest and you’re the host. We’ll see what happens. So let’s start with your journey to your current position role. Let’s go way back, not too way back, but how did you get started? How did you get started in commercial real estate? Was there anything before? And tell us about your journey in commercial real estate.

JN: Sure. So it was definitely luck from the start in the sense that I was an English major at Colgate, an upstate in New York. I knew very little about real estate. But fortunately, one of the alums, Paul Massey, had posted a position to become a sales associate and at this point, all my friends had investment banking jobs and I was really scrambling late into the spring to find a job. I thought maybe I was going to go out to the West Coast and try to make movies or something like that and I quickly found out that no one was paying me to do that. So I said, all right, I better go get a real job and so I come to New York, and I will say I had a really great gut feeling about the place. It’s just great people and seemed like a great opportunity and lo and behold, they called and offered me the job. It wasn’t until several months later that they told me that only two people had applied for the job, and I was actually their second choice. So we always joke that I started with very low expectations. But fast forward 17 years later, I was a partner at the company. We sold the Cushman & Wakefield, had three incredible years there, and then was given an opportunity to build out the investment sales team here in New York for Avis & Young a little over seven years ago. So focusing on investment sales in the New York tri-state area, the major food groups, multifamily, office, development, retail, a little bit of industrial and now recently, as of the beginning of this year, became head of U.S. investment sales to really help elevate the sales that we’re doing across the U.S. Now, Avis & Young, we have 120 offices around the world. We have 60 here in the U.S and what I’m really helping us do for our clients’ benefit is to focus in on the top 10 markets, New York being certainly one of them. But again, to help with our sales, investment sales business in these major markets and having a lot of fun so far.

DA: Well, congratulations. Quite a journey and congratulations on the new position, the new role. Of course, Paul Massey has been a previous guest on the podcast. Loved connecting with him. So you’re in great company. Just tell me a little bit about why you think you were so uniquely suited for this position. Perhaps an English major, maybe you had different plans initially. But obviously, you gravitated towards this, not only to New York as a destination, but also the position. Why do you think that has worked for you?

JN: Yeah, well, I love certainly brokerage and the sales aspect and just learning new things every single day. So after being in the New York market for 25 plus years, I’ve really enjoyed the opportunity to learn other markets and to bring that expertise and share it across the country. But I’m also, in addition to the brokerage piece, I’m also really passionate about building teams and very proud of the team that we have here in New York and we’ve got great people across the country, but looking to build on that as well. So there’s certainly an intellectual curiosity piece to it. I think, you know, regardless of what you’re doing, you want to be a lifelong learner and I think this new role is also giving a lot of perspective. So even as I continue, New York continues to be a really important market, but it’s been interesting to bring back what we’re seeing in other markets, and not just across the U.S. I mean, I love visiting Toronto. We’re a Canadian-based company. That’s where our global headquarters are and so you see things and you pick up along the way and I think it’s really helpful when you’re advising investors on, you know, how they should be, what they should be thinking about for their business, and really trying to always keep them stay ahead of the curve.

DA: Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, thanks for the shout-out to, you know, where the company originated and the Canadian roots. We’re good partners. We just have to remember that. We’ll get to politics. No elbows here. No elbows. No politics here, but we believe we’re great partners. I’ve had Neil LaSure on the podcast. I’ve had Sheila Bodding on the podcast. So great representation from your company, and I’m glad you’re able to lend your voice to the conversation today and certainly through the lens that you’re so deeply embedded in, in terms of transactions, in terms of sales, in terms of, you know, what people are buying and what people are selling. So pretty exciting to have you on the show. You know, I’m super interested in commercial real estate and how it’s evolving, you know, how it’s responding to the emerging needs of people in buildings today, how technology is coming into play as an accelerator of providing great service, great experience, and helping to make what we call places destinations of choice. We really believe that that’s at the root of what will continue to bring people back to the physical workplace. We don’t believe, you know, you’re in the space business any longer. It’s not, you just don’t rent space. It’s far more than that and I think the winners in our industry are going to be the ones that understand this, this new transformation, understand that it’s going to be this sort of the, the, the way in which, you know, experience and workplace design and functionality, you know, how all of these points intersect with each other. So I’m just curious through your lens of someone who’s out there buying and selling, how are you seeing the real estate industry respond coming through COVID and into this sort of this new world in particular, this transformation and any insights that you can share with us at this point?

DA: So, and David, would you like me to speak specifically about kind of just the market macro, or are you talking about how the businesses evolved from a technological standpoint?

DA: Both, both and certainly through that New York lens, which you are so intimate with, but also now with your larger perspective across the country.

JN: Sure. So as far as where we are, where we are in the market, because I really think there, this is a very opportunistic time. There’s certainly a lot of uncertainty and that, that has clearly been we’ve been up and down the roller coaster, so to speak since the pandemic and, you know, coming out of 2020 and wondering what is the future of office returned office going to look like, you know, getting in a better place there, finally building things back in 21, where suddenly we were transacting again, debt was plentiful and very inexpensive and that really fueled a lot of sales activity and investment and then, you know, mid 22, when rates started going up at an unprecedented level what they did was it just created really the uncertainty where both buyers and sellers alike just didn’t, when there’s uncertainty, I think the tendency is just to take a step back and move to the sidelines and so, unfortunately, what that meant in New York in 22 and 23 was that sales volume here was only about a third of the 10 year average. Now that’s the major food group. So multifamily office, retail development and then finally, you know, last year, we saw a pickup in dollar volume activity, but it’s still well only half the 10 year average. So, you know, that has been tough. Certainly if you’re a broker, if you’re a technology provider and you’re, you’re, you’re looking you know, for investment and transactions, it did seem like we were finally turning a corner here, you know, the U S, we got a rate cut or two and looking forward to getting things kind of moving again and then, you know, a couple of weeks ago with, with all this announcement with, with, you know, the tariffs, it’s like, we’re, we’re, you know, back on the roller coaster here, but it is you know, the market itself and I know you all do a great job with your technology as well and just trying to inform our clients again, how to stay ahead of the curve. It’s, it’s certainly in greater demand and need now than, than ever. I think there’s a lot of uncertainty out there. So where you can help provide advice and clarity I think it’s, it’s very important. So as far as the, the technology advancements and it’s funny, I just got back from guest lecturing at Columbia and talking about how in many cases, brokerages change very little in the 25 years that I’ve been doing this. I mean, there’s certainly brokers who are leveraging technology and, and investors as well and there’s still a lot that’s still kind of use the old, you know, school you know, analog version of, if you will and so I don’t know. I think that creates opportunities. I think those who adapt and I think those who are certainly leveraging data, I know that that’s our company has been very big believers in not just, you know, leveraging the data, but, but really making it actionable. So kind of looking through and, you know, there’s so much data out there. It’s okay. How, how do we make the best informed decisions from it?

DA: Right. When you’re, when you’re, you know, talking to potential clients, particularly on the acquisition side, and they’re touring buildings, first of all, you know, what are they looking for? And is what they’re looking for different from class A to class B to class C you know, what is driving their investment decision today? We are seeing, I mean, we have clients that are still acquiring and I think obviously there’s always a market and then there will always be transactions. You know, you see some building owners giving the keys back to the bank at the same time, you know, they’re, they’re out there buying through another fund. You know, what, what, what types, what is motivating the buyer today? What kind of questions are they asking? Are they any different than they were perhaps pre pandemic?

JN: Well, I would say if we’re talking about office the buyers, the investors today are really just looking at basis and value in large part. So, and it’s really interesting to see that here in the U S over 50% of the buyers have been on the private side. So it used to be really the institutions that, you know, we talk about the drop in sales volume and activity of the institutions really drive the dollar volume, but a lot of them have been on the sidelines, right? And I’m probably going into an investment committee right now, talking about going to buy an office deal, you know, let alone get it financed and, you know, so a lot of the private investors have been stepping up, but for them, you know, they’re looking at this as a basis play. You know, if you can buy an office deal today at 20, 30 cents on the dollar, I think there’s a lot of these investors who say, even if you just sit and do nothing for a couple of years, that you know, the return to office continues to improve and the overall economy and environment that, that, you know, those bets will pay off. So that that’s, that’s where a lot of the investment we see is on, you know, from the investor side, interestingly. So we just wrapped up a study of the last five years of office sales in Manhattan. There was 184 of them since the pandemic and we analyzed those sales and interestingly, almost if you combine the residential office to residential conversions and end users stepping up and buying their buildings, it almost accounts for about half of the square footage being transacted and so, and, and I, I think this is a really positive trend for a lot of reasons. One is, you know, at least here in Manhattan, we have over 500 million square feet of office space. We have availability reached as high as 20%. That’s a hundred million square feet and even if we had a great return to office, I think the reality is that a lot of this space is just obsolete and so what do you do with it? And meanwhile, we have a housing crisis. I’m sure it’s not too dissimilar to Toronto and other major cities across the, around the world and so the idea of to take, you know, obsolete office and convert it to residential where it makes sense, I think is a really great trend and I also think companies that are being opportunistic and they’re buying their own office buildings, that is, that’s a great thing too because they’re establishing a permanent presence and they’re also taking some of this available office stock off the market.

DA: Right.

JN: So it’s had a really positive impact.

DA: Yeah, that makes total sense. I read an article, I think it was earlier today, in fact, where there’s now this push, you know, there was the flight to quality, you know, all the beautiful triple class A buildings everyone wanted to be in them, but we’re starting to see that trickle down effect where all of a sudden now some of the better located, better amenitized, better quality, B, B plus buildings that the leasing activity is starting to pick up and perhaps on the buy sell side, I’m not sure. But what, you know, I’ve always felt that the world will look a little more like it did pre pandemic than it did during the pandemic and then as much as, you know, perhaps a lot of the BNC inventory will not be necessary to your point of oversupply, that there is still a place for quality boutique style buildings, just as much there is for the 40, 50, 60, you know, floor story, you know, brand new real estate like Hudson yards. Any thoughts on that?

JN: Well, I know maybe this, this stat is a little old, but at one point we saw that 75% of the leasing demand was going for the top 25% of the building stock, which is the class A and trophy. But that was probably about a year ago, but fast forward to today, what our leasing brokers will tell you is that a lot of that space at the top of the buildings have filled up.

DA: Right.

JN: And so, you know, if you want class A or trophy, you’re probably ended up on a lower floor, or that’s going to kind of push the demand to you know, non trophy. Right and, and I think kind of the next choice is location. So if we’re talking about Manhattan office, for example, if you wanted the, you know, the trophy class, a new construction, a lot of those, you know, companies ended up in Hudson yards, you know, but that filled up. So now there’s kind of this return to grand central and I think a lot of the companies that are filling up one Vanderbilt, you know, achieving rents, 200, even $300 a foot. We saw some, some incredible rents being achieved on park Avenue for 25 park Avenue amongst them. But we’re seeing is this whole grand central areas become very desirable as a result of kind of, you know, a lot of the tenant base that want to be in close proximity and that’s, that’s going to help, you know, maybe not the class C buildings, but, you know, the B’s and the B pluses.

DA: Yeah. Agreed agreed to that end. I’ve always felt that technology can sort of be that equalizer and help position buildings, no matter what class, no matter what age in, in a different light and so, you know, we’re looking at technology now to help sort of deliver that one stop seamless personalized digital experience and, you know, I think people want to be able to connect use technology to connect to their building. They want to, you know, be able to connect with one another. They want to foster greater productivity, you know, just and help make where people live and work easier and better. So I’m just curious from a customer experience and engagement perspective you know, what are your thoughts on how technology is either working and doing a good job or perhaps where it could be doing contributing in a more meaningful way?

JN: Yeah. I mean, I think what you’re doing for not just office space, but creating those communities is incredibly important because that is why people want to show up to the office is for that community. It’s not just a, you know, a physical place to park your stuff and so I think the more that you can create that engagement I mean, the employers are definitely, you know, that’s why, you know, clearly they want that return to office. They just know that, you know, people are more productive and you get that collaborate collaboration, the synergy when people work together. So to what extent you can make that a seamless experiences as you all have done with your technology. I think it makes a ton of sense and gives people a reason to want to come back to the office.

DA: Agree. You know, this whole reinvention of commercial real estate you know, it’s a huge opportunity for the industry. I think that I don’t know from your experience and your years of experience, I think we can agree that it’s been one of the most significant moments in time. So just looking forward and seeing the momentum that we’ve had coming out of the pandemic. If I were to cast, you know, wave my magic wand and give you resources, either a new capital budget or human resources, something to do something that perhaps you haven’t been able to before. You’ve been constrained before. What would you do now to move your business forward to, to really think in terms of, you know, next three to five years to really increase the relevancy, the, the, the impact that you could have on this industry. What would you do that perhaps you haven’t been able to do in the past?

JN: Well, I, I think this, this new role, you know, taking on a more national focus is, is really exciting and I think I’m at a great spot to do this. You know, brokerage is kind of a funny business in that you know, and you have all different types of firms and cultures from the small boutiques to the, you know, the big global full service firms. But, you know, brokerage can oftentimes be a very siloed business where you have brokers who work a specific neighborhood. That’s what they do. They keep their information to themselves. That’s the, that’s kind of their currency and so you don’t have, you know, the willingness, I guess, to, to you know, to kind of have collaboration across the company and so what we’re doing now with USIS, I guess the United States investment sales group is that we’re really trying, you know, just like you’ve created this seamless technology for your clients. We want it to be seamless for investors. So if you want to invest across the country or North America’s around the world, and you tell us where you want to be and what you’re looking for instead of saying, well, David, that’s, that’s great. You know, but I can help you in New York and then you got to kind of, you can talk to this person, this market or that, as opposed to just being plugged in immediately. That really, I think is, you know, the goal, right? If you’re a client, you don’t want to have to worry about trying to make inroads in every single market and figure out and I think technology can certainly play a big part in it, but you have to have the culture because we can have the best database in the world and we have one database for our capital markets group. So if someone wants to invest, everybody knows about it and what they’re looking to do. But if you don’t have that culture where brokers say, I want to share, then it doesn’t work. Then it’s all, you know, for not. So I think there is a, you know, a combination. I don’t know if that answers your question, but what I will tell you is that what I’m really focused on right now is we kind of build up our sales capabilities is we want to first start with, with research and we want great data thought leadership, right? And it’s, it’s, it’s a little more challenging than what you would think because you know, and sure this, this exists with leasing as well. I mean, you have the lease comp, but you know, what were, you know, what was the free rent? What was the TI? Just like when you’re tracking an investment sale comp, well, what was the cap rate? Okay, well, why, you know, what were the lease terms? And, and, you know, that’s always the challenge when you think about making, you know, the capital markets more efficient, more transparent. How do, how do you do that when the information isn’t always perfect? So I, we think a lot about that, but right now we’re really building out our reporting capabilities. You know, you should get a great investment sales report that tells you about the trades, the major trades, who are the players. We’ve been tracking capital flows. We just ran a report today on where capital is flowing out of New York to what major markets and where inbound capital is coming from and it’s really interesting to see how capital is flowing all over the country here and we’ll be very interested to see how it hopefully continues to flow cross border. You know, traditionally Canada has been a very incredible partner to the U.S and certainly a big part of our investor base. You know, so we hope that that continues, but that’s a long way of answering the question that, you know, I still I think there’s a lot of work to be done to, you know, create that information, the transparency and really helping our investors make the best, not just the best decisions, but also really put them in the position to transact.

DA: Right and is that sharing of information and transparency within Avis and Young, or is that between, you know, you know, other brokerages as well? Where, where, where do the boundaries start and stop?

JN: Well, I think it’s, it’s both and, and I’ve got a, you know, the, the, the offering and this kind of goes back to the way investment sales business is done today is, you know, maybe the way it was done 25 years ago, maybe the way brokers continue to operate. But it always amazed me that when, you know, you could go search costar right now, which I think we could all say is kind of the de facto, you know, for back lack of a better word for, for sales listings, the, the multiple listing service. I mean, loop net one, one of their affiliate companies, you know, is, is where you would go if you wanted to search for, for lessons. Right and it always amazed me if you, if you go and search for New York right now and you say, okay, show me New York investment properties that are for sale over a hundred million dollars and you’ll probably only get one or two results, but at the end of the year, there’s, you know, 50 or a hundred of these deals that trade. So you said, well, wait a second. There’s, you know, it could be a hundred of these deals trading, but I don’t see, see any of them. So where are they up front? And I think, you know, the older school of brokerage is still, I’m going to keep the listing in house. I need to go broad with it. I know who the buyers are. Look, in some situations where a client needs to keep information confidential, I get that, but I still believe in this, this goes back to my Massey knuckle days that maximum exposure gets the widest audience and gets the highest price and no, no one broker knows all the buyers in the market, individuals, the company.

So yes, working hand in hand with the brokerage community and cooperating. I mean, obviously that happens on the leasing side, not as much on the sales side, but that, that, that would be one way and then, you know, the, the, the data and, and, you know, the way we share information about clients. I mean, that, that certainly is under Davis and young umbrella, because again, if we’re having conversations in LA about what, you know, an investor’s looking to do, and that is helpful when you can share it across the company platform. So it doesn’t again, feel like you’re having the same conversation every time you want to go into a new market.

DA: Makes sense. Makes total sense. Well, let’s hope that the, you know, I think as the world as data becomes more available and I think as, you know, others perhaps feel similarly to yourself, hopefully those, those boundaries will become more blurred and, and, and it’ll be a win-win for the industry. Let’s take a short commercial break and we’ll be right back.

COMMERCIAL BREAK

DA: And now I’d like to welcome back to the show James Nelson, author, podcast host, investor, and principal head of U.S. investment sales at Avis and Young. Again, thank you so much for being with us today.

JN: Yeah, great. Great to be back and I appreciate the shout out on the book because I know earlier we were talking a lot about the market and the way the business is evolving, but some things do, well, I’ll get the cliche wrong, but some things do stay the same and I think some of the principles of investing that I talk about in the book and for so long, people always ask me, James, what’s the book that teaches you how to invest in real estate? And I couldn’t give them a good answer. I said, well, there’s textbooks, there’s the rich dad, poor dad, if you want to start out, but a book that really tells you about everything that goes into a serious real estate investment, I couldn’t find anything. So mid 2020 camped out at home during COVID, well, I guess I’ll go write a book. So I had a lot of help with my writing partner, Rachel Hartman, and McGraw Hill was kind enough to publish this and it’s been a lot of fun and like I said, I just got back from guest lecturing at Columbia and passed out a box of books and it’s a great thing.

DA: Amazing and did the podcast, your podcast start in around the same time or what was the, what was that evolution? The podcast actually happened before the book, kind of a precursor.

JN: So originally when I had an idea for a book, I was thinking lessons learned from the real estate grades and maybe I’ll get around to doing that book or maybe Chad Cheapy Tee will, but I realized before I did that, you have to lay the foundation with, okay, we’re going to talk about kind of mastering real estate investment. You first of all have to explain the basic premise to it. So this book really had to come first and it talks about, it starts very basic on the different to invest in real estate, not just different asset classes, but up and down the capital stack and then it talks about the people it takes to do a real estate transaction. It talks about, you know, how to source opportunities, how to work with brokers, how to raise capital, how to reposition properties. So again, hopefully everything, again, if you’ve never even invested in real estate, I think if you read this book, you know, it’ll definitely put you on the path. Interestingly, this book and the press premise of, and the title of the Insider’s Edge is that you can gain this advantage because real estate is still an inefficient marketplace, right? And so, you know, that’s the, I mean, if you invest in the stock market, everybody has access to the same information, right? But here, the fact that there’s not always great information available, that makes it more challenging if you’re an investor or broker, but if you have that inside track, you can definitely gain the advantage.

DA: Right. Very interesting. Well, thanks. Thanks for writing it and I look forward to reading my own copy. So, you know, 80 guests in, we’ve had a lot of voices on the podcast from all different aspects of the industry. But what is clearly emanating now as if it was a singular voice is this whole notion that every person who enters your building is now viewed as your customer. I think, you know, pre-pandemic and for the longest time, it was just the person who signed the lease. That’s ultimately who you cared about and we now care about everyone and I think this changes the game dramatically, both for the occupier, as well as the occupants, as well as those that operate commercial real estate and I think we’re finally in a moment in time where everyone understands this and what we’re drawing on inspiration, particularly in office, is from the hotel industry and the restaurant industry, from the hospitality industry, and recognizing that we have an incredible opportunity to infuse that hospitality across the spectrum of buildings. So, again, this is not reserved for Class A trophy buildings. I think that great hospitality can be introduced at every building and I think that that is going to really help continue to draw people back. So just wondering what you are seeing, wondering also what you’re seeing in terms of those that are buying, and are they articulating any of this thinking? And as they’re considering a property, are they thinking about how they can then deliver great service to support the physicality of the offering? So it’s not just space for rent, but what else about the building is going to become a draw? Any thoughts on that?

JN: Yeah. I mean, I think that what some of the top office operator owners have determined is that they don’t want to be in a commodity war, right? Because if you’re just trying to compete for the cheapest rent and the most concessions, that’s really challenging. I mean, you have to deliver a product and an experience that you don’t get anywhere else and I think that the larger operators really figured out to say, almost kind of taking a branded approach where someone knows what it’s like to be in an RxR building, for example, where we are here. I actually, on my podcast, I interviewed Jonathan Iger from Sage Hall and same thing. They really are big into the hospitality aspect of it and it works. I mean, it helps with the tenant retention.

DA: Yes. 

JN: And I think that it does differentiate your product. So I think, yeah, to your point, gone are the days where you kind of see a tenant as an adversary and I think you see them as a true partner. Certainly, especially in this market with the challenges in the capital markets. I mean, just try to go finance a vacant office building these days, pretty challenging. So you’ve got that tenant who’s willing to make that long-term commitment, then that’ll help capitalize the building and help you continue to improve the asset and I think that’s why you see the Class A and Trophy assets outperform, because people want that experience.

DA: I think this has opened the door for a lot more collaboration between building owner, the occupant and the occupier, and just everyone understanding that it’s one ecosystem that everybody needs to derive value from and feel that this is a place they want to be and I think that’s an exciting opportunity for the industry. We all come to commercial real estate with different backgrounds, different perspectives, areas of expertise, all in and around office, the future of work. What else are you thinking about that I haven’t addressed today that’s sort of impacting how the role of commercial real estate has continued to evolve and how the physical workplaces continue to evolve? We heard there’s a lot of lingo, ESG, IoT. We’re talking about deriving more ROI, a lot of M&A. What are other topics that are just sort of top of mind for you as we sort of navigate the future going forward?

JN: Well, we kind of touched on a little bit before, but I think what’s been really interesting to see as part of this recovery, I mean, it used to be really the institutions, the REITs dominating the office space and now you see a lot of the private investors coming in, certainly foreign investment as well and they’re kind of rewriting the rules with a lot of these situations and so, you know, it is, I mean, yes, trends to watch. I mean, we watch where the capital is flowing from. We look at, you know, the investment activity and unfortunately, it still feels like there is a lot of that herd mentality from the institutions and, you know, there’s rumors that Blackstone is going to make a major acquisition of an office deal in New York. I think, you know, that happens and that changes the narrative, right? Because then you think in these investment committees, office becomes, you know, an acceptable investment opportunity. So, you know, that is the one, you know, challenging thing and how do we get through this when it’s sometimes, you know, kind of that herd mentality, so to speak, you know, has made it more challenging for the recovery, right? So, but I think we’re already starting to see signs of life. I mean, we’re tracking where CMBS is being issued. I thought it was very interesting that in the first quarter of this year, LA had the most CMBS issued for office. Actually, you know, you would think of, and then San Francisco is number two. I mean, those are really, you know, you would say tough office markets. The fact that now, you know, finally, it’s like, okay, there’s value here, right? And there’s capital flows opening up. So, I think that’ll be an important thing to watch here, especially we want to continue to see this recovery. We need capital invested. We need lenders who don’t, you know, feel that necessarily they’re going to be under a microscope scrutinized, you know, for making, you know, these loans.

DA: So, I guess it makes sense that these, you know, family-owned, private, smaller, more entrepreneurial firms have been leading the way in terms of transactions and setting the stage for, to your point, some of these large institutions that are already creating these funds. We’ve read about them in the paper on numerous occasions. So, you know, we know they’re there, but maybe they haven’t yet transacted, but it makes sense that those smaller family-owned, private, again, more entrepreneurial, that they’re leading the way.

JN: Yeah and I mentioned earlier with office, the fact that end users are now stepping up and buying their buildings for, you know, Gucci and Prada on Fifth Avenue, kind of more of a retail play. It’s been like $800 – $900 million a piece. Hyundai bought their, you know, headquarters here in New York. But then you’ve got Haddad. They’re in the garment business. They paid $350 million for a Park Avenue office deal, and they’re going to take 800,000 feet. This is a really interesting trend and thinking about, you know, typically, you know, this dynamic of office operators and how they run the buildings for tenants. But I, you know, I would imagine, you know, with what you all are doing, if you’re a company and you own your own building, how do you make the tenant, you know, not the tenant experience, but your employees experience better? I mean, it’s the same thing and now from the owner-user, it’s not just about, you know, making it an enjoyable place for people to come to work. You’re looking for employee retention, right? Because if you don’t get it right, and then, you know, someone decides, well, hey, I’m going to go, you know, go across to a competing firm or whatever it is. So I think it’s really important now, you know, to help retain the best talent as well, to make sure that you are operating an office building and really making it welcoming and a place where people want to show up every day.

DA: I agree. These are real estate companies that are not necessarily real estate companies that now own real estate and in some cases, we’re reading about them in the news also and trying to figure out how to get in, you know, how to have those conversations and I think they actually present significant opportunities for us because they are not, you know, don’t necessarily have the experience of being an operator, but, you know, they find themselves now being just that. So I think there’s a lot of opportunity and we’re seeing in tracking those deals as well. Good. Closing speed round, an opportunity to get to know you, James, a little bit better on a personal level. So looking back, what’s one piece of advice that you wish someone had given you when you first started your career?

JN: I think to build a team earlier. I think I waited too long to bring on support. I was probably, you know, three, four or five years into the brokerage business before I really started to build out a team and I think, you know, if you have a belief in yourself, it’s never too early. You know, you start with an intern. There’s so many people out there who want experience, right? Don’t try to do it all on your own. 

DA: Right. Good advice. Is there a favorite book or podcast, not yours, or mine, that has positively impacted your approach to work or life?

JN: Well, I thought you were going to ask for the real estate business and TREP, the TREP wire is really, you know, I think to get a good macro view of what’s going on in real estate every week is super important. But what else? I mean, I’ve been listening to the All In podcast recently. I love the data-driven approach to policy and just, you know, trying to understand the issues. So I think that’s helpful and I don’t know, my podcast feed is always full, whether it’s, you know, Ed Milet or, you know, Tony Robbins, all that. I mean, I’m just constantly, you know, I don’t want to just say consuming because that makes it seem like I’m just sitting here with all this knowledge. I’m a really big fan of putting thoughts into action. That’s a big piece of, you know, one of my mentors and broker coaches, Rod Santomasimo, you know, knowing isn’t doing, like you hear this stuff, but then I’m always thinking about how am I going to apply it? Yeah.

DA: Yeah. Very good. Name one way in which technology has improved how you live or work.

JN: I just think connectivity. It’s really amazing to think that, you know, mid 2020, we’re like, okay, what’s the Zoom thing? Right. How does this work? And now we’re all experts at it and it’s almost become too easy and then, you know, even like I had a meeting today with a New York client, and it’s like, all right, well, let’s just all jump on Zoom and go through the deck and that has made it really easy to get a lot of people, you know, looking at the same thing from different places, like the speed of business is happening, probably 5x, maybe 10x and now with the advent of AI and everything going on, you know, there’s still no substitute for the personal interaction. So I hope we don’t lose that.

DA: I agree. But it’s the best of all worlds. That’s to me where it’s not one or the other and tomorrow, I have a guest coming on the program in Dubai, I’ll be talking to her live from Dubai. You know, really could not have happened, you know, five, six years ago. So incredibly exciting and it’s just taking advantage of that opportunity. As commercial real estate continues to evolve, I think the skill sets required are going to continue to change. Is there anything that you’re sort of you identify within the industry, even, you know, even within your brokerage industry, skills that you think are going to be needed going forward that maybe, again, weren’t important previously?

JN: Well, I think it is really important to be an expert at whatever you do. So whether it’s an asset class of geography, look, I think kind of if you’re talking about brokerage, most brokers start off in the multifamily space. There’s a lot of it. But guess what? There’s also a lot of brokers and, you know, some of these more niche businesses, whether you’re a broker or an investor and, you know, look, I think this data center revolution is really interesting and there’s, you know, there’s not a lot of brokers out there who really have the hard technical skills to understand how it all works. The land assemblage, powering the land, you know, so there’s new there’s new categories that, you know, even if you’re new to brokerage and you’re investing that that might be a little bit different because, I mean, these data center deals are massive. But look, I mean, someone still has to go find the land and get it approved and entitled. So I just I mean, I don’t know the risk of going too narrow out of the gate. I think sometimes, you know, picking an asset class, a specialty that’s maybe not as mainstream might serve you better in your career.

DA: Fair enough. Fair enough. If you were not doing what you’re doing right now, what would you be doing instead?

JN: You know, I have been very fascinated with sports agents and how this all works, especially with the advent of NIL and I’ve been telling my middle son, who’s a big sports nut, that, you know, look, maybe that’s something you want to think about. Just, you know, the contracts, the negotiations. I mean, it’s really brokerage, but it’s talent. So maybe that’s not a fair answer. I just I mean, I think this is a really interesting time and probably have a whole nother podcast on it. You know, is this really a good thing for college sports or whatever? But like you have high school athletes now who are signing NIL deals and like who’s brokering it? Who’s doing that?

DA: Right. 

JN: I mean, it’s like this whole new world that’s opened up. So I’m just I’m just fascinated now.

DA: Okay. Well, and certainly connected to what you’re doing from a sales perspective. Listen, James, thank you so much for joining me on the program today. Really enjoyed our conversation. Looking forward to continuing that in person in New York shortly and I hope we can connect and continue to find ways to collaborate. Thank you so much.

JN: Wonderful. This has been a lot of fun. Wishing you all the best.

DA: Thank you. Take care now.